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I am running the BSR tune on my R. I'd like to eventually upgrade the downpipe as well, but I have heard from many sources here on SS that this is not possible. I've got comments like the following:<br>- This might result in boost spikes which can cause damage.<br>- BSR is not supporting this. You will be running with a lean air fuel ratio (too much air per each unit of fuel) and you will also have uncontrolled boost spikes. This means you will be carrying a high risk of engine knock (detonation) which can be deadly for a turbocharged engine.<p>I do not understand this? <br>What is the reason for this? <br>What are the differences between different chip tuning brands? <br>Is there anything I can adjust in the software if I am running BSR and still want to do the downpipe?<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by andersh67 at 1:03 PM 4-20-2009</i>
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>andersh67</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am running the BSR tune on my R. I'd like to eventually upgrade the downpipe as well, but I have heard from many <br>sources here on SS that this is not possible. I've got comments like the following:<br>- This might result in boost spikes which can cause damage.<br>- BSR is not supporting this. You will be running with a lean air fuel ratio (too much air per each unit of fuel) and you will also have uncontrolled boost spikes. This means you will be carrying a high risk of engine knock (detonation) which can be deadly for a turbocharged engine.<p>I do not understand this? <br>What are the differences between different chip tuning brands? <br>Is there anything I can udjust in the software if I am running BSR and still want to do the downpipe?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The BSR tune runs fairly lean compared to the competition.The stock DP is fairly restrictive, swiching to a higher flowing DP makes the turbo respond so quickly that the BSR tune doesn't react in time causing detonation in the form of excess boost spikes!<br>What is the reason for this? Again lean AF ratios, increased boost and no managment for a higher flowing DP.<p>The difference is that each company has taken the time and effort to choose a tuning platform whether it be the softloader, the PPC, or sending in your unit for a reflash... There are many ways to increase power especially on a turbo engine. A few examples are, increased boost, leaner AF ratios, advanced or retarded timing, to name a few. Each company may use different methods and or a different combination of ways to increase power. Some put more effort forth than others resulting in a better more vehicle specific product. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>On your last question I think you are out of luck unless something within BSR has changed.
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

I'm wondering if the IPD TCV would compensate for the boost spikes because it has higher latency.
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

andersh67...I'm in the same situation....not that I have the $ right now but I think I would have to scrap my BSR tune(as I understand it) in order to do more mods,well just the DP is affected. I would love to keep the PPC and have them swap the program in it for a tune for my Saab and then get the iPD tune for the R...
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

BSR tune will run just fine with a DP and 93 octane. However, you are in CA, so I don't know if it is advisable with 91. I personally know of 3 Rs that ran a BSR and DP for years with no problems.<p>The one person who was able to recreate the BSR/DP knocking (detonation) on the dyno noted that it was remedied by increasing the octane by adding racing gas. Can't remember his handle to find the thread, one of the other old timers can chip in? Another proposed solution was aquamist or keeping ambient temps down with FMIC.<p>Again, this is one of the most debated and contentious issues in the history of the R Forum, although most of the commentary was from people that weren't running the BSR tune. <p>Of course, BSR has never helped clarify the situation. Years ago they released a new version of the software, that some said fixed the issue, but supposedly BSR wasn't going to release a true stage 2 until they released their own DP for the P2 R, which they never did IIRC. <p>At any rate, you can order a DP and see if you experience any problems, supposedly it will be very noticeable. If you don't, great. If you do, you can always switch to an IPD or RICA tune, both of them make specific tunes for running with a DP. <p>Let us know what you do... since I'm in CA now, very interested myself.
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BSR tune will run just fine with a DP and 93 octane. </TD></TR></TABLE><br>I can mix 100 (4 gal) and 91 (13 gal) to make this 93, but I will probably end up spending just as much on gas in total as I will do on a new tune from RICA.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At any rate, you can order a DP and see if you experience any problems, supposedly it will be very noticeable. If you don't, great. If you do, you can always switch to an IPD or RICA tune, both of them make specific tunes for running with a DP. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>Well, according to the responses I've got before it sounds like I could damage the engine completely, so this sounds scary. However, If I do this and I notice any problems, can I then just de-tune to stock and keep the DP on until I invest in a RICA tune instead? <br>Note, I do not do any mechanical work myself so I have to pay a shop to do any modifications to the exhaust, so I am not that flexible. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"><p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Let us know what you do... since I'm in CA now, very interested myself.</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Where in CA are you? I'm in San Jose / Bay Area.
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>andersh67</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I can mix 100 (4 gal) and 91 (13 gal) to make this 93, but I will probably end up spending just as much on gas in total as I will do on a new tune from RICA.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Especially if you are keeping the car for a few years!<p>I would go ahead and just grab a new tune and a downpipe at the least, although a catback is great too (stock tips are ugly!)
 

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Keep in mind that while CA law defines premium gas as 91 octane, CA law also dictates a much stricter tolerance on <i><b>actual</b></I> octane numbers, what this means is that literally you could get 93 octane from a pump in TX (very lax laws regarding actual vs advertised) and 91 from a pump in CA and more often than not the 93 from TX will be around 91-91.5 in reality while the CA fuel will actually be 91. Laws vary state by state and actual AKI tends to track the legal minimum in that state very closely.<p>In San Jose there's only going to be a relatively small portion of the year (compared to the south) that you are going to get high temps. Honestly, rather than a DP, I think I might get an FMIC if I were you, the lower your IAT is, the lower the chance of knock to a point. I think I would start there. I'm in Sunnyvale and as soon as my R is out of the shop you can checkout my FMIC. (DP install is shortly to follow)
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

If you hear any knocking, you can get off the boost, pull over and detune immediately with BSR. <p>Keep in mind, ambient air temperature makes a difference on in-cylinder temps, so if it is hot outside, and you are running it hard, it increases the chance of this condition. Again, at a track and on a dyno were the only reported cases that this happened to my knowledge. <p>Seriously, JimLill, Needsdecaf anyone else remember who did the post on BSR detonation on the dyno before adding racing gas? <p>I'm in Fresno for the next 5 weeks or so.
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you hear any knocking, you can get off the boost, pull over and detune immediately with BSR. <p>Keep in mind, ambient air temperature makes a difference on in-cylinder temps, so if it is hot outside, and you are running it hard, it increases the chance of this condition. Again, at a track and on a dyno were the only reported cases that this happened to my knowledge. <p>Seriously, JimLill, Needsdecaf anyone else remember who did the post on BSR detonation on the dyno before adding racing gas? <p>I'm in Fresno for the next 5 weeks or so. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>'twas Rharder IIRC. <p>Welcome back sir. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/embeer.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (andersh67)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>andersh67</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am running the BSR tune on my R. I'd like to eventually upgrade the downpipe as well, but I have heard from many sources here on SS that this is not possible. I've got comments like the following:<br>- This might result in boost spikes which can cause damage.<br>- BSR is not supporting this. You will be running with a lean air fuel ratio (too much air per each unit of fuel) and you will also have uncontrolled boost spikes. This means you will be carrying a high risk of engine knock (detonation) which can be deadly for a turbocharged engine.<p>I do not understand this? <br>What is the reason for this? <br>What are the differences between different chip tuning brands? <br>Is there anything I can adjust in the software if I am running BSR and still want to do the downpipe?<p><br><i>Modified by andersh67 at 1:03 PM 4-20-2009</i></TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>It is possible.<p>I’ve been running the BSR tune with a DP in 94 degree ambient temps for two years with no problems. However, I use 93 octane and have a FMIC.<p>I am not sure that BSR ever claimed that their tune was too rich to run with a DP. Part of the reason for that assertion, wherever it originated, might have come from the fact that BSR did not sell a DP for the R.<p>I believe that at one point a member asked BSR about this issue. Their response for not selling a DP for the R, IIRC, was not that the tune was too rich but rather that no power would be gained from the DP. This of course doesn’t make complete sense either.<br>
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe (L67_R)

I posted earlier about sharing andersh67's dilemma, I fill up with 93 consistently and have a TME exhaust/ RKelly CAI/K&N/iPD TCV but no FMIC...yet, it certainly isn't any hotter here than in FLA...I wonder if my situation would be favorable to a DP.......
 

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Re: BSR tune and downpipe ("R" Kelly)

IIRC, at one time moddeR had the BSR tune, Svenske DP and A-Mist and was seeing a 13.1 A/F ratio or so on the dyno w/93 octane. Not optimal but ever so slightly lean. Even if you lost the A-Mist in the equation, I can't imagine it would shoot up past 13.4 or so although that to me is definitely lean. Nothing a can of Torco wouldn't cure <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 
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