[GoSwedeRacer]

Alright, I finally received my PPC after a looooong wait. However, since I'm still having problems getting the downpipe installed, I was wondering how detrimental installing the new Stage-3 program would be if I did not have the downpipe installed. I have the K&N drop in filter and the EuroSport Tuning muffler installed, just not the downpipe... yet.

I am so itching to flash to the Stage-3 program... but I'm holding off, pending information from you guys, but damn, it's hard.

Thanks!

 

[davidklaw]

Haha, interesting predicament... I say go for it and if you see some sort of odd power curve than reflash it back to OEM and wait for the exhaust!

 

[quick]

You paid the $ for a tune that incorporates the downpipe.

If you run it w/o the downpipe you won't see the same kind of power.

What's more you could experience some issues depending on how the tune is done. I have no idea what parameters they mess with in the stock program, so I'm not even going to hazard a guess.

If it were me I'd wait the extra ~day and get the dp installed first.
-Chris

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (GoSwedeRacer)

I would certainly connect the PPC to the car and see if it goes to the "Read car?" step. If so, you can upload the file to BSR for tuning while you wait for the part.

Tom.

 

[GoSwedeRacer]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (tmtalpey)

It goes directly to "Tune Car"... That's why it's so hard to resist programming.

 

[volvoNB]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (GoSwedeRacer)

Quote, originally posted by GoSwedeRacer »

It goes directly to "Tune Car"... That's why it's so hard to resist programming.

Haha. Do you stare at it and think, "Don't push the button. Don't push the nice shiny button." I asked BSR a while back and they said don't run stage 3 w/o downpipe. Same goes for running a downpipe w/o the Stage 3 programming. I'm guessing the A/F mixture is richer to compensate for the increased flow.

 

[GoSwedeRacer]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (volvoNB)

Yeah... the ENTER and MENU buttons are close together... and the PPC is taunting me with "Tune Car?" I was so close to pressing ENTER.

ARGHHHHH

 

[V50_T5]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (GoSwedeRacer)

just get the down pipe, the 3" ferrita piece is sweet.

 

[GoSwedeRacer]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (V50_T5)

Quote, originally posted by V50_T5 »

just get the down pipe, the 3" ferrita piece is sweet.

Ahhh, but you haven't read my post completely...

I DO have the downpipe. The muffler shop just couldn't get it off, because they were afraid of torquing the bolts right off. They tried for an hour.

The itch is killing meeeeeeeeee....

 

[Oldman]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (GoSwedeRacer)

the bolts are tight and if not done by a pro with the right tools you will just end up with stipped bolts that will NEVER come off, pay the bucks talk to the shop that is willing to put the time in, got the tools. don't try some five buck an hour monkey,,,,

 

[danbanana]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (Oldman)

My ME degree is making me ask: What sort of stripping are we talking about? The threads? The bold heads popping off? If the bolts are simply torqued down during assembly, getting them off should be easy. Is there LocTite on them?

 

[volvoNB]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (danbanana)

Quote, originally posted by danbanana »

My ME degree is making me ask: What sort of stripping are we talking about? The threads? The bold heads popping off? If the bolts are simply torqued down during assembly, getting them off should be easy. Is there LocTite on them?

It's the heat from the exhaust that makes that thing stuck on there.

 

[danbanana]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (volvoNB)

Still don't get it: unless it's melting the bolts, any expansion (and it would be an extremely small amount) due to heating sould subside when the parts cool to ambient temp. Unless they're expanding so much they're deroming the threading, and that's improbable.

Here's a question: what sort of temps are we talking about?

Another: who's successfully done this task and what did the removed bolts look like? Any deformation?

I'm a rank amateur when it comes to specifics of car performance/repair, but bolts and anchors I know. This just sounds weird, unless a thread adhesive like loctite is used.

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (danbanana)

Quote, originally posted by danbanana »

Here's a question: what sort of temps are we talking about?

Well, the manifold and turbo housing are made of forged austenite steel designed to withstand up to 1050 degrees C. Hot 'nuf for ya?

Trust me, these things seize up tightly. The good news is, since they're bolts which go through the turbo flange and thread into nuts on the downpipe flange, they aren't actually seizing in the turbo itself (like a stud would).

Tom.

 

[danbanana]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (tmtalpey)

I'm not questioning the fact that they DO siezing up, just curious how they're doing it. It's an interesting problem...

 

[tmtalpey]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (danbanana)

Oh, mostly iron oxides in the threads. A little goes a long way.

Many installations call for copper paste to be applied to threads before tightening. Copper has some very useful properties to prevent seizure in exhaust applications. But I am not sure whether use on the S40/V50 turbo is acceptable. And, it doesn't help the first poor sap who has to open up the joint.

Tom.

 

[Oldman]

Re: BSR PPC Stage 3 w/o downpipe? (danbanana)

the hex gets stipped off the head and that is even using flank drive stuff. Look the surface contact area of a boltthread is HUGE vs the small contact area of even a flank drive socket. You can twist just about any bolt on, but to take it off after there is some bonding between the surfaces is near impossible. Add some heat, some oxygen some time and you are either breaking them off or stipping the hex off the heads and then you need to chisel them off IFF the chisel can fit.

 

[quick]

Listen to Tom and Lou -- they are right on the money on exhaust bolts -- particularly ones near turbo applications.

Anti-seize is a life-saver in these situations.

 

[V50_T5]

Re: (quick)

sorry, didn't read completely or had a beer too many when reading , either way. yeah, understand this was/is a challenge and paid a competent shop for the installation. I usually do things myself , but in this case paid 180 euro($225) for the DP and exhaust install.

 

[Oldman]

Re: (V50_T5)

now put the money to good use....