[Starrdrop]

TL;DR: I bought a beater and turns out it got beat on more than I bargained for, do I bother trying to save this car or just dump my bag and cut my losses? I'm $4000 in the hole already, I'm not sure if I should dig it any deeper. Any and all diagnostic help would be much appreciated, worst case scenario it'll make it easier to sell.

Edit: This is what happens to a car, not just a European car, when you let issues sit for way too long. If there's any lesson to learn from this, get a pre-purchase inspection done and buy a car you can afford not just the price tag of, but to maintain. Just look what the previous owner did to this poor boy.

Edit (10/28/21): Please check the most recent post for updates, I won't amend this further because it's long enough already. I've decided to attempt repairs, TBD if I'll keep it long-term.

I recently made a gamble of a decision to buy a 2013 Volvo S60 T6 R-Design with "a few issues" from a private seller. 166k miles, experiencing misfire in one bank (cylinders 2, 4, 6, coils are probably still good, #4 was done 10k miles ago) and a bad alternator ground. The seller stated the catalytic converter was clogged and causing the issues. I figured no big deal, I'll get the problem areas patched up and I'll be good to go. Boy, was I wrong.

I brought it to the shop, it has a blown turbo. Great, I'll get it replaced, I thought. No, a rebuild was quoted at $2,000 and a three week turnover time.
So, onto the next idea. The engine is already high miles, so maybe it's worth just replacing the engine and upgrade the turbo? Not getting a warranty for the work is fine since it'd be a junkyard engine anyway, and I can do the work to match for the exact engine I need. Called the shop up with the idea and they said a new engine and turbo would be $5500 with a 1 year, 50% parts and labor warranty or around $4300 if I find my own junkyard parts.

Among all of this, I discovered either I probably got duped by the seller. On PA's NADA fair price assessment form, the seller claimed "Catalytic converters are going bad, O2 sensors need replaced, head gaskets are going bad, high miles, spark plugs & ignition coils need replaced." There are no catalytic converters, there are no O2 sensors. The car's straight piped, and not correctly at that. It passed PA inspection in January, meaning the seller knowingly modified the exhaust between that time and now, knew he was lying or had no idea what work was done, and sold it to me anyway. He said it had a muffler and resonator delete, which I checked for myself, saw the lack of both and assumed all was well since it passed inspection. So much for that...

Finally, here's a big, fat list of every issue I've personally discovered with the car and all the generic OBD2 trouble codes I could pull.
ALL STRICKEN HAVE BEEN RESOLVED WITH A NEW BATTERY & CALIBRATION!

• Extremely rough idle. Car shakes, car gives a "slow down or shift up" warning
• RPM dips low at idle, made slightly better by putting in park. Stalls if left to do so too long.
• Service traction control warning
• Slightly uneven braking and acceleration (alleviated after oil trap & related components replaced and after ABS being restored)
• ABS errors (apparently due to blown fuse)
• Low battery warning, goes away when starting the car
• Oil coming from exhaust, now I know it's because of the bad turbo
• Brake lights don't work, for some reason (bad brake switch?)
• Previous repair bill states oil was discovered entering #4 cylinder when the coil was changed

P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire (coil replaced ~10k miles ago)
P0306: Cylinder 6 Misfire
P2270: O2 Sensor Signal Stuck Lean - Bank 1, Sensor 2 (mechanic claims both O2 sensors are not attached)
P0420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (the car is straight-piped)
P074468: Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Intermittent. Algorithm-Based Failures (probably throwing a code due to engine misfire) (NOTE: Codes have not been read since CEL returned due to continued misfiring, this code may still be present)
U042841: Invalid Data Received From Steering Angle Sensor: General Checksum Failure or System Internal Failures
U300317: Supply Voltage General Electrical Failures Circuit: Voltage Above Threshold (probably a bad ground)
C003407: Right Front Wheel Speed Sensor. Mechanical Failures, General Failure Information
U042862: Invalid Data Received From Steering Angle Sensor: Based Failures Signal Compare Failure
C008254: Brake System Malfunction Indicator. Missing Calibration
U040168: Invalid Data Received from ECM/PCM A. Event information, Algorithm Based Failures

 

[BenjaminD]

Holy crap, I didn't know you could find one this bad.

Sorry you got shafted. Hopefully there is a way out of this for you that incurs minimal pain. A good S60 is a great car -- makes me sad to think that some loser totally ruined one in 8 years.

 

[abcdefghii]

Have you put in a new battery? A lot of modern cars go nuts when a battery is on the way out, not saying it will cure all your problems (and it sucks you are having so many) but may resolve some of them. I've read about some really weird behavior from a bad battery.

 

[Starrdrop]

Holy crap, I didn't know you could find one this bad.

Sorry you got shafted. Hopefully there is a way out of this for you that incurs minimal pain. A good S60 is a great car -- makes me sad to think that some loser totally ruined one in 8 years.

Yeah, I asked the mechanic for some more details and it turns out most of this is due to someone letting the classic breather box issue go for WAY too long. Burnt up the turbo, ate the seals and probably did a number to the engine. Most of the electronic problems seem to stem from a dying battery, but I'm unsure how likely that is.

Dump and run or should I dare to fix it?

 

[Starrdrop]

Have you put in a new battery? A lot of modern cars go nuts when a battery is on the way out, not saying it will cure all your problems (and it sucks you are having so many) but may resolve some of them. I've read about some really weird behavior from a bad battery.

I agree, I think the calibration of the everything got reset because of the battery being on the way out, it's definitely the factory original. Only things it probably really needs electronics-wise is a new wheel speed sensor and a brake relay.

 

[onlyjuancannoli]

So first thing is first, that quote for a turbo rebuild seems heinously high, unless doing the labor of R&R is incredible time consuming on these cars?

Brand new OE turbo with all necessary install hardware $1149 + lifetime warranty

Volvo Turbocharger Replacement Kit - Borg Warner 36002568

Volvo Turbocharger Replacement Kit - Borg Warner 36002568

www.fcpeuro.com

P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire
P0304: Cylinder 4 Misfire (coil replaced ~10k miles ago)
P0306: Cylinder 6 Misfire
Poorly gapped, old and worn plugs or ****ty coils could all be the cause of this too. I'm not sure how sensitive these engines are to non OE parts.

P0420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (the car is straight-piped)
P2270: O2 Sensor Signal Stuck Lean - Bank 1, Sensor 2 (mechanic claims both O2 sensors are not attached)
Sensor 2 is the post catalyst sensor. If the guy is running straight pipes, he didn't bother welding a bung in for the sensors since it would fail anyway without a spacer (defouler) to fool the system. Source a stock downpipe and see what they will set you back. And yes, while you are correct, the P0420 code is most likely being thrown because the car is not getting a signal from the post catalyst o2 sensor. That should be resolved once a cat is installed, or a bung is welded in and an o2 spacer is installed to fool the car into thinking there is a cat.


U300317: Supply Voltage General Electrical Failures Circuit: Voltage Above Threshold (probably a bad ground)
If you're having battery issues, or an incorrect battery was installed it could trigger this. Modern cars, especially european cars, tend to do weird **** when the battery voltage is low. Its to do with the way they're wired. I've seen cars with low battery voltage start and run fine, and then pop the trunk when the headlights were turned on.

C003407: Right Front Wheel Speed Sensor. Mechanical Failures, General Failure Information
C008254: Brake System Malfunction Indicator. Missing Calibration
This will trigger most of your ABS/Brake system faults. Modern cars tend to use the ABS sensors for many reasons. Mini uses them for vehicle speed signal, TPMS, and ABS. 1 bad sensor could throw multiple codes/lights as it deactivates multiple systems due to the fault.

U042841: Invalid Data Received From Steering Angle Sensor: General Checksum Failure or System Internal Failures
U042862: Invalid Data Received From Steering Angle Sensor: Based Failures Signal Compare Failure
My Audi did this whenever you pulled the battery terminal off. Usually have to perform a calibration which is easy enough.

U040168: Invalid Data Received from ECM/PCM A. Event information, Algorithm Based Failures
P074468: Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Intermittent. Algorithm-Based Failures (probably throwing a code due to engine misfire)
These 2 have me stumped with their generic verbage, however its possible they're faults thrown from poor voltage like the supply voltage error.

Worth is in the view of the owner, I'm new to these cars but the best way to really get any value out of this is to try and tackle some, if not most of the repairs yourself. Are you comfortable trying to do the repairs on your own? Is this your only vehicle?

 

[Starrdrop]

Worth is in the view of the owner, I'm new to these cars but the best way to really get any value out of this is to try and tackle some, if not most of the repairs yourself. Are you comfortable trying to do the repairs on your own? Is this your only vehicle?

Nope! This is my project car. I've just gotta be able to get it running good enough to transport it to and from the shop for the work it does need. The engine I'm probably going to just outright replace, so I could definitely go the route of a used engine and perhaps that new turbo? Or maybe a junkyard one, not sure. I'm not really confident enough to do those two myself, the rest of it could be a different story.

In regards to the straight pipe, I'd have to get the whole pipe assembly replaced, then? How much should that run me? I can't weld so DIY is out of the question there.

Edit: Or would just installing a fool O2 sensor do the trick? He did give me a bung he said still needed installed, though I'm unsure how to go about doing that.

Edit2: And yeah, that's the quote for a rebuild, which is insane since it costs more than a new one??? The seller claims the turbo is still fine and it's the seals so I don't know who to believe, the mechanic or the seller who was driving it...

 

[onlyjuancannoli]

So you would have to remove the downpipe, and have a welding shot weld that bung onto it (hopefully in a way that wouldn't interfere with any other of the cars components or parts) and then install a spacer. The spacers are universal really so you can just google image search "o2 defouler" or "o2 sensor spacer" and you should get some photos of that. The cheapest/easiest thing to do might be getting stock or aftermarket downpipe. Now I can't see your car right now, but look at this listing. (Sorry in advance if I simplified this too much. I'm not sure of your education level on cars/parts)

Becker Exhaust Downpipe For 2008 thru 2015 Volvo S60 S80 XC60 XC70 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Becker Exhaust Downpipe For 2008 thru 2015 Volvo S60 S80 XC60 XC70 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Go to the third photo. The end with a single pipe and a 4 bolt flange goes to the turbo hot side. See the bolt right below that? Thats where you'd install the primary o2 sensor (bank 1, sensor 1). Right before the Y, and right next to the hanger you'll see a second bolt on the top of the pipe. That's the bung for the secondary o2 (bank 1, sensor 2). That is what your current pipe is missing, or its possible the PO was an idiot and it has a bung already welded in, so check! The pipe in the listing above has that bulge right after where the turbo bolts to it, its either some kind of resonator, a small "pre-cat", or its fake as **** to look like a cat. Either way, if you install the secondary sensor with a spacer that restricts the air it can measure the car "believes" the cat is installed and thus the ECU operates at the normal parameters for AFR's. Currently, without the sensor the car is running pig rich as a fail safe which is not ideal. Once you correct the o2 situation it will run the factory map, however and I say this as not knowing where the components are in the car, or how good Volvo's ecu's are at adapting and compensating, if you run the car with a "less" restrictive exhaust and missing the factory catalyst there is a chance it can actually run lean. Turbo cars and lean AFR is a big no-no. Ideally it'll make the car driveable, but you'll eventually want to get it tuned before you start beating on it.

I can't comment on how hard these cars are to work on as I just got mine this week, and I've never worked on a Volvo, let alone a P3. It does seem like a bit of a headache with how big this longblock is. My suggestion would be to see if you can resolve all the other smaller gremlins first for as little as possible. Once you know the majority of the issues are taken care of, then gauge what you want to do.

At that point, you can perform a compression test which will show you how healthy the engine is in terms of the piston rings. If it falls within spec, I probably wouldn't swap it out. Another option is something called a leakdown test, it helps pin point where you would be losing compression from to avoid having to replace piston rings when the problem is actually bad headwork for example.

Compression tester is available at harbor freight for about $60-70, and its a good tool to have if you plan on working on cars as a hobby. You can watch a few youtube videos for anything here that you need to do, and just take a stab at it. As long as you pay attention then you won't really make any costly mistakes. When those happen its usually from carelessness.

 

[Starrdrop]

So you would have to remove the downpipe, and have a welding shot weld that bung onto it (hopefully in a way that wouldn't interfere with any other of the cars components or parts) and then install a spacer. The spacers are universal really so you can just google image search "o2 defouler" or "o2 sensor spacer" and you should get some photos of that. The cheapest/easiest thing to do might be getting stock or aftermarket downpipe. Now I can't see your car right now, but look at this listing. (Sorry in advance if I simplified this too much. I'm not sure of your education level on cars/parts)

So what I'm getting from all of this is I should ideally just have a new catback exhaust put in & new O2 sensors to avoid all the trouble OR bring it to a shop to weld the bung I've got into place along with an O2 defouler to fool the AFR back to the usual rates? Sorry, I have very minimal experience with exhaust systems because I've just never had the urge to modify them.

I'll have to message the seller and ask what he specifically did with the exhaust and what still needs done, then probably have a muffler shop weld the thing into place.

 

[MyVolvoS60]

TL;DR: I bought a beater and turns out it got beat on more than I bargained for, do I bother trying to save this car or just dump my bag and cut my losses? I'm $4000 in the hole already, I'm not sure if I should dig it any deeper. Any and all diagnostic help would be much appreciated, worst case scenario it'll make it easier to sell.

I recently made a gamble of a decision to buy a 2013 Volvo S60 T6 R-Design with "a few issues" from a private seller. 166k miles, experiencing misfire in one bank (cylinders 2, 4, 6, coils are probably still good, #4 was done 10k miles ago) and a bad alternator ground. The seller stated the catalytic converter was clogged and causing the issues. I figured no big deal, I'll get the problem areas patched up and I'll be good to go. Boy, was I wrong.

Your recourse = Zero. Should have had the car Pre-Purchased Inspected before buying. Used cars come with New headaches, and the seller offloaded it to you As-IS.

Depending on how much truly needs done (and if some of these problems are a battery issue or relatively simple), keeping or cutting one's loss is going to be relative.

You're into the car for $4k. How much is it worth to make this car run properly? How is the car cosmetically? If you do fix, is it worth keeping or selling to recoup your losses?

 

[lunalolvo]

I'd see what carvana/carmax/vroom would offer to take this thing off your hands.
I bailed on a somewhat mechanically better (ran, shifted, drove fine - shook like heck though), albeit higher mileage, S60 T6 RD for ~3k. It needed much, much more than it was worth - with an unsure life expectancy even after everything was sorted. However, even with 250k on the clock, carvana was ready to offer enough that I'd not lose any by flipping it to them.

 

[Starrdrop]

I'd see what carvana/carmax/vroom would offer to take this thing off your hands.
I bailed on a somewhat mechanically better (ran, shifted, drove fine - shook like heck though), albeit higher mileage, S60 T6 RD for ~3k. It needed much, much more than it was worth - with an unsure life expectancy even after everything was sorted. However, even with 250k on the clock, carvana was ready to offer enough that I'd not lose any by flipping it to them.

I'll have to give them a look, thank you!

 

[Starrdrop]

Your recourse = Zero. Should have had the car Pre-Purchased Inspected before buying. Used cars come with New headaches, and the seller offloaded it to you As-IS.

Depending on how much truly needs done (and if some of these problems are a battery issue or relatively simple), keeping or cutting one's loss is going to be relative.

You're into the car for $4k. How much is it worth to make this car run properly? How is the car cosmetically? If you do fix, is it worth keeping or selling to recoup your losses?

That's the other reason I made this thread; what would I be looking at to fix this car and is it worth it in the long run.

 

[BenjaminD]

Yeah, I asked the mechanic for some more details and it turns out most of this is due to someone letting the classic breather box issue go for WAY too long. Burnt up the turbo, ate the seals and probably did a number to the engine. Most of the electronic problems seem to stem from a dying battery, but I'm unsure how likely that is.

Dump and run or should I dare to fix it?

Well, there aren't a ton of those around. I would say fix it. You got it cheap -- once it's sorted, you'll have a unique kind of equity in it.

Not to mention the fact that you would probably pay $12k or more for a good T6 RD right now. This is the time to fix what you have!

 

[BolboLubber]

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Volvo

 

[Tonyfr]

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Volvo

 

[Ipso]

Part Out

 

[Starrdrop]

Well, there aren't a ton of those around. I would say fix it. You got it cheap -- once it's sorted, you'll have a unique kind of equity in it.

Not to mention the fact that you would probably pay $12k or more for a good T6 RD right now. This is the time to fix what you have!

Exactly why I bought it, crossed my fingers it wouldn't be so bad and yet, welp, it is. On the bright side I found somebody to install the turbo kit for me that @onlyjuancannoli suggested, so the labor of that is no longer a factor.

There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Volvo

If it makes you feel any better I knew it going in, I was just banking it wouldn't need an engine.

However, by the looks of it, as long as a code reset wipes out most of the electrical gremlins and it passes a compression test it'll need a new PCV valve, a turbocharger & seals/gaskets, a brake pedal relay, a wheel speed sensor, a new battery (three owners and nobody changed the battery... I can't believe that) and possibly the valve cover gasket. Oh, and to fix up whatever mess the previous owner left behind with the exhaust system.

It sounds like a lot, but aside from the turbo those are all relatively minor & inexpensive things. Would certainly keep me well below 12k to do. All that's left from there is to drive the engine into the ground and then move the turbo into the new one or sell it before the next major service.

Part Out

Worst case scenario, this is the plan. My trump card is that the car is rare, so parting out should get me a small return at best or leave me only having lost a few hundred bucks. (And wasted time, but that's no problem for me)

 

[VTSpeed]

As long as the chassis is straight and the interior is decent, I'd say you have a good start on a project car.

 

[twinspark]

Just sell it or part it out. If it was a rare exotic then a restoration would be justifiable but these are not exactly rare.

Only financially sound way to rebuild this is buying a mechanically sound insurance write-off, like a car that’s been rear ende, theft or biohazard.