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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some posts in the IPD forum regarding low boost levels. I recently posted this..<p>I was, with RICA stage 1 tune - hitting 18-19 psi boost levels. I'd hit the gas and bang - boost would race up to those levels and stay there until I shifted. I put in my IPD DP and upgraded to Stage 2 w/ RICA. Now, boost only "pops" up to 15-16 and then slooooowly builds to about 19 at red line in 4th gear. It's a little hard to tell as things are getting pretty exciting at that speed but it is a very different characteristic then before. The boost seems solid enough, it doesn't really jump around. So, I'm wondering, is it the tune (I'm talking to RICA) itself and I need it tweaked, or is it something else, like the CBV or BPS? I pulled the IPD TCV and tested it again, just to make sure it wasn't bleeding.<p>Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

Then I played around and learned some more and posted this:<p>I did notice that one of my brackets holding my OTE pipe on seems to have broken a bit. It wiggles where it is fused to the pipe, and I'm wondering if there is, possibly, a bit of my blessed boost escaping when under high pressure. I tried taping it up a bit - but that had no improvement on boost levels - and of course I have no idea if I actually have a crack in the pipe.<p>I'm a little skeptical of a crack in the OTE, only in that I make and hold 16 easily, under WOT and then build from there slowly to about 20 at red line.<p>I wish I had another OTE to try. Does this possibly broken bracket seem like my culprit? Any other ideas? IS there an easy way to test the pipe for leaks?
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

I'd get a new OTE Charge Pipe if its cracked. You'll probably log a LTFT Code soon if its not fixed.<p>One possibly reason for a drop in boost with the edition of the DP is that now your exhaust has better scavenging which makes better engine efficiency. Basically you can have more air flowing easier through the head and out the exhaust, so an improvement in airflow may be the reduction in boost. If it feels more powerful by the Seat O' the Pants meter but you see lower boost on your gauge, it may just be better efficiency and nothing to worry about. But generally these turbos can still make high levels of boost even with a bunch of bolt ons.
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Oceans60R)

Aftermarket downpipe will always cause the turbo to spike faster due to better exhaust flow but stage 2 compensates for it so you don't spike too much so maybe RICA does it too well?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (xman03)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>xman03</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Aftermarket downpipe will always cause the turbo to spike faster due to better exhaust flow but stage 2 compensates for it so you don't spike too much so maybe RICA does it too well?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's what I was thinking. And so have been speaking to George (and he to RICA) about tweaking the tune - which may include less compensation for spikes. We'll see what I come up with. <p>In the meantime, I'll pull the OTE pipe and see if it is cracked.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

My OTE isn't cracked and so I'm at something of a loss. Does anyone know the part number for the Boost Pressure Sensor? <p>Any other ideas? <p>I'm talking to George on the RICA tune, too.<p>
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

Word from EST was to not run the stage 2 tune with only a DP, because stock exhaust can't really handle the boost <B>and</B> the increased flow you would get. <p>It's definitely holding back from boost spikes, but is it giving you more top end power that it doesn't expect the exhaust to hold back?<p>Let me know, I'm very interested.
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (BeerEngineer)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BeerEngineer</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Word from EST was to not run the stage 2 tune with only a DP, because stock exhaust can't really handle the boost <B>and</B> the increased flow you would get. <p>It's definitely holding back from boost spikes, but is it giving you more top end power that it doesn't expect the exhaust to hold back?<p>Let me know, I'm very interested.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I had the DP and stock exhaust with Stage II tune for awhile and it's true, once you get the catback it's much smoother and the car feels better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (BeerEngineer)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BeerEngineer</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Word from EST was to not run the stage 2 tune with only a DP, because stock exhaust can't really handle the boost <B>and</B> the increased flow you would get. <p>QUOTE]<p>I hadn't heard that and understodd the stock exhaust to be be not that restrictive. What will the car do when it doesn't handle the boost and more flow? I guess you are suggesting that it will knock down the boost? <p>
BeerEngineer said:
<p>It's definitely holding back from boost spikes, but is it giving you more top end power that it doesn't expect the exhaust to hold back?<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Not sure I undertand this either. I see that at red line, I am getting more boost, but this seems contrary to the earlier statement regarding the exhaust providing more restrictive flow. I would think, at red line, at max boost, I am generating the most flow. <p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Edogg218)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Edogg218</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I had the DP and stock exhaust with Stage II tune for awhile and it's true, once you get the catback it's much smoother and the car feels better.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>The car feels ok, in that it doesn't hesitate, etc. I'd sure like to get an exhaust but want to make sure that it is the source of the problem befoe I pull that trigger.
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johnr352</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Not sure I undertand this either. I see that at red line, I am getting more boost, but this seems contrary to the earlier statement regarding the exhaust providing more restrictive flow. I would think, at red line, at max boost, I am generating the most flow. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Alright, for example, on a stock R, the Stage I tune seems to be pretty basic, and it ups the boost, end of story. However, because the DP and exhaust are so restrictive, the turbo doesn't spool up too quick, and its controllable.<p>When you put a big downpipe on there, with more flow, the turbo is spooling up sooner, and the tune needs keep you at a safe level so you don't overboost as the turbo finishes spooling (which apparently happens with an exhaust/DP and Stage 1 tune). <p>However, at the top end, since the turbo is done spooling, the boost is allowed to climb safely. However, this is generating more flow than your exhaust can handle, and creates a bottleneck for you. This makes the engine unhappy, and it's probably fighting itself.<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (BeerEngineer)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BeerEngineer</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p><br>Alright, for example, on a stock R, the Stage I tune seems to be pretty basic, and it ups the boost, end of story. However, because the DP and exhaust are so restrictive, the turbo doesn't spool up too quick, and its controllable.<p>When you put a big downpipe on there, with more flow, the turbo is spooling up sooner, and the tune needs keep you at a safe level so you don't overboost as the turbo finishes spooling (which apparently happens with an exhaust/DP and Stage 1 tune). <p>However, at the top end, since the turbo is done spooling, the boost is allowed to climb safely. However, this is generating more flow than your exhaust can handle, and creates a bottleneck for you. This makes the engine unhappy, and it's probably fighting itself.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>This is very helpful, thanks. Interestingly, RICA has indicated the tune is set to max out at about 23 psi. I had indicated my concerns about the tune maybe "overcorrecting" for the boost spikes but they thought it was more likely a hardware not software problem. I'd like to try going back to my Stage 1 just to see if the entire scenario changed (I've asked to do this). They did not indicate a particular concern with the exhaust. <p>Absent that, I don't really have an option for an alternative exhaust to try. I wish I could bolt something up for an afternoon to see if it were the culprit. <p>Aside form that it is the bnormal routine of a smoke test, MAF, BPS, CBV - or potentially a bad cat (too restrictive - not sure how to test that).<p>Any ideas on how to test the manifold for leaks or a DP with a bad cat?
 

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Re: Boost and wastegate control question (Johnr352)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johnr352</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>This is very helpful, thanks. Interestingly, RICA has indicated the tune is set to max out at about 23 psi. I had indicated my concerns about the tune maybe "overcorrecting" for the boost spikes but they thought it was more likely a hardware not software problem. I'd like to try going back to my Stage 1 just to see if the entire scenario changed (I've asked to do this). They did not indicate a particular concern with the exhaust. <p>Absent that, I don't really have an option for an alternative exhaust to try. I wish I could bolt something up for an afternoon to see if it were the culprit. <p>Aside form that it is the bnormal routine of a smoke test, MAF, BPS, CBV - or potentially a bad cat (too restrictive - not sure how to test that).<p>Any ideas on how to test the manifold for leaks or a DP with a bad cat?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Being in the same boat hardware wise, I don't think there is a good tune for DP only. Except the Stock one, I likes it and I think it would be too wild as a daily driver for me. And by daily I mean I put 30k miles on in the last year.<p>I think a bad cat would throw codes, and you could talk to ipd about that. For Leaks, you could take it in somewhere, but anything of consequence you would probably feel or at least hear.<p>
 

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Whats the stage 2 pressure supposed to be for ipd?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Boost and wastegate control question (BeerEngineer)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BeerEngineer</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Being in the same boat hardware wise, I don't think there is a good tune for DP only. Except the Stock one, I likes it and I think it would be too wild as a daily driver for me. And by daily I mean I put 30k miles on in the last year.<p>I think a bad cat would throw codes, and you could talk to ipd about that. For Leaks, you could take it in somewhere, but anything of consequence you would probably feel or at least hear.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Right, I thought that Stage 2 just modified the boost and AFR for the DP, over and above that of Stage 1. So, I am going to trade out the BPS and experiment with Stage 1... Will let you know, thanks for your help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (chinaonnitrous1)

Don't know IPD's but RICA said they set an absolute max of 23...
 
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