AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability

rushin_max · Sep 4, 2008

So, I was doing my research to get more familiar w/ the car before I start doing any "upgrades" in terms of hp/tq, and stumbled on this: <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC" TARGET="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC</A> <A HREF="http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/02products/02at/01ff/index.html#ff6speed" TARGET="_blank">http://www.aisin-aw.co.jp/en/0...speed</A>"..torque capacity up to 450Nm(~330Ft-lbs)" 330ft-lbs is just around the corner of stock 295, so couple of questions: Is the tranny beefed up on the R's in any way to handle more tq? Anyone making over 330ft-lbs on GT 6-speed tranny had any issues?I also understand AWF21 comes on xc90 models, which come w/ V8 pumping out ~325ft-lbs of TQ. Not sure if it's limited, regardless, if any xc90 owners happen to read this: Any tranny issues?Also, for the manual owners(M66) I've been trying to find out the tq capacities, but got a little lost. I know the tranny is made by getrag/ford. On getrag's site they list 3 diff. 6 speed manuals w/ diff. tq capacities.(400,425,450Nm) <A HREF="http://www.getrag.de/en/218.1?criteria1=_MT_&criteria2=_Front_Quer_&criteria3=_%C3%BCber_400_NM_&Ergebnisse=0&x=17&y=10" TARGET="_blank">http://www.getrag.de/en/218.1?...&y=10</A> So which one is it on the R?(if any of them) And, any major tranny issues with over 330ft-lbs tq? Thanks <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/embeer.gif" BORDER="0">

AthruC · Sep 4, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (rushin_max)

A stage 1 tune takes you well past those numbers WRT ft/lbs... People have expressed concerns with transmissions, but I have yet to hear about a problem - it's always the angle gear (or some component thereof) that goes first, well over 360 to 400 ft/lbs. You'll have issues w/ the cylinder walls cracking before you have issues w/ the transmissions.

rushin_max · Sep 4, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (AthruC)

Another concern regarding this:"TNN43-53-2006-12-21 Title: Auto Trans - TF80-SC Diagnostic Information Summary - Valve Body Replacement. This document summarizes customer complaints related to the 6 speed Automatic Transmission (TF80-SC) and should be used together with the information in VIDA.The Valve Body should be replaced to address the following symptoms: 1. Customer complaints about 2-3 upshift quality. The shift may be described as harsh, or as a shudder. The symptom is usually more apparent during the first few minutes of driving after a cold start. 2. Customer complaints of shudder when slowing down, just before coming to a stop. The symptom may also be described as a harsh downshift just before coming to a stop. 3. Neutral condition in 4th, 5th & 6th gear; normal behavior in 1st, 2nd, 3rd & Reverse. One or more of the following DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) may be present: P073400, P073500, P072900, P089600. 4. Neutral condition in all gears except 5th & Reverse, usually with DTC P273300 set. DTCs for gear ratio(s) may also be set such as P073000, P073100, P073200, or P073400. Note: Transmissions starting with serial number 06J and later already have the latest valve body which is designed to prevent these symptoms. " My transmission serial starts w/ 05F, so below 06J. I haven't experienced any symptoms yet, nor have I seen the service history(yet) to check if this was already addressed previously, but reading this got me paranoid. So, my question is: When I finally get to see the serv. history and if there's nothing mentioned about this fix; Should I just wait until the problem arises? Or should I basically(as much as I hate being dishonest) lie about the symptoms, and request them to replace the valve body?

Tigers1981 · Sep 4, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (rushin_max)

I have a 5 speed GT that is holding up to 401 wtq of hard driving. My angle gear broke at 135k miles during an episode in the pouring rain while making a 90 degree turn from a dead stop merging in to traffic. I had to get on it hard to merge in causing the front tire to spin fast and breaking the angle gear. In the dry I had absolutely no problem with the angle gear or transmission handling the power on my 13.285 second car.

Helmut Ranff · Sep 4, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (rushin_max)

M66 is Ford and built in Cologne. I tried to find more info in Vadis but cannot find it. I think it is less NM torque than the other ones or the 400nm one

Edogg218 · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (Tigers1981)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tigers1981 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a 5 speed GT that is holding up to 401 wtq of hard driving. My angle gear broke at 135k miles during an episode in the pouring rain while making a 90 degree turn from a dead stop merging in to traffic. I had to get on it hard to merge in causing the front tire to spin fast and breaking the angle gear. In the dry I had absolutely no problem with the angle gear or transmission handling the power on my 13.285 second car.</TD></TR></TABLE>So you're the lucky one from GA with the hybrid--I'm waiting on mine, and they're only a few around...

Needsdecaf · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (rushin_max)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rushin_max »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Should I just wait until the problem arises? Or should I basically(as much as I hate being dishonest) lie about the symptoms, and request them to replace the valve body? </TD></TR></TABLE>You can smooth your conscience by not lying.....because it wouldn't do you any good. They wouldn't affect this repair without being able to verify the symptoms themselves. A TNN is not a recall, it is a way to address a certain set of symptoms. Hell, most techs can't verify when you DO have symptoms.

Tigers1981 · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (Edogg218)

It is freakin awesome! The car pulls insane now.

Elak R · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (Tigers1981)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tigers1981 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It is freakin awesome! The car pulls insane now.</TD></TR></TABLE>What is awesome????

TGO · Sep 5, 2008

yeah really, wtf is a hybrid?

Needsdecaf · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (TGO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TGO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah really, wtf is a hybrid?</TD></TR></TABLE>Turbo.

Elak R · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (Needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>So Tiger1981 is saying this turbo hybrid is awesome. I see now. If it is an awesome turbo...I hope that 13.2 ET is pre hybrid turbo install. I would expect an aftermarket turbo install to give you some serious ETs for sure!

RainyS60R · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (rushin_max)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rushin_max »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Another concern regarding this:"TNN43-53-2006-12-21 Title: Auto Trans - TF80-SC Diagnostic Information Summary - Valve Body Replacement. This document summarizes customer complaints related to the 6 speed Automatic Transmission (TF80-SC) and should be used together with the information in VIDA.The Valve Body should be replaced to address the following symptoms: 1. Customer complaints about 2-3 upshift quality. The shift may be described as harsh, or as a shudder. The symptom is usually more apparent during the first few minutes of driving after a cold start. 2. Customer complaints of shudder when slowing down, just before coming to a stop. The symptom may also be described as a harsh downshift just before coming to a stop. 3. Neutral condition in 4th, 5th & 6th gear; normal behavior in 1st, 2nd, 3rd & Reverse. One or more of the following DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) may be present: P073400, P073500, P072900, P089600. 4. Neutral condition in all gears except 5th & Reverse, usually with DTC P273300 set. DTCs for gear ratio(s) may also be set such as P073000, P073100, P073200, or P073400. Note: Transmissions starting with serial number 06J and later already have the latest valve body which is designed to prevent these symptoms. " My transmission serial starts w/ 05F, so below 06J. I haven't experienced any symptoms yet, nor have I seen the service history(yet) to check if this was already addressed previously, but reading this got me paranoid. So, my question is: When I finally get to see the serv. history and if there's nothing mentioned about this fix; Should I just wait until the problem arises? Or should I basically(as much as I hate being dishonest) lie about the symptoms, and request them to replace the valve body? </TD></TR></TABLE>Max,Yes, you are being paranoid. I had similar concerns about the fuel pressure sensor recall on the early '04 cars. I'm out of the VIN range and have yet to experience any problems. The best thing to do is get in your car and drive it, or trade it in on a Camry. Why on earth would you lie about problems your car doesn't have? What's the benefit of replacing parts that are perfectly fine? Do you like wasting your time, along with Volvo's time and money? Perhaps I should take my '04 6MT in and start complaining about my 2-3 shift quality and a shutter when slowing to a stop.<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> ~ TrygveTo answer your second question, the M66 transmission is pretty bullet-proof, with the exception of the clutch. The clutch should last a long, long time if it's not abused constantly (dropping clutch at stoplights, etc.). I push my car hard, but rarely from a dead stop.

Tigers1981 · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (TGO)

In this case it is a kkk24 turbo with larger internals to flow more air thus generating more whp and wtq in a turbo that is a direct bolt on to the stock manifold.It is kind of the in between in modding the R car between R Rated who is making insane hp and tq with a much larger turbo and a stock R car. You can see by my sig that I have pushed the stock block and internals about as far as it will go.Elak in answer to your comment; the only place I have ever dragged the car is Atlanta Dragway which is a really slow track. The last time I dragged it the best I could do was a 13.8 amongst a bunch of 14 second runs. So to go from 13.8 to 13.2 with the turbo upgrade and all of the cooling mods I have on this 4200 lb car was good enough for me.On a fast track that 13.2 run is maybe a 12.8 or faster run and that puts this car in E55 AMG, M5, new M3, C63 AMG (which are running 12.3 to 12.6 stock) and even the new CTS-V (which in the right driver is a 12.0 or less second car stock but has been running 12.3 to 12.6 stock on slow tracks) territory (those cars all being stock of course). Not to say my car is there but it is getting to where it could be in the neighborhood.

Elak R · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (Tigers1981)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tigers1981 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In this case it is a kkk24 turbo with larger internals to flow more air thus generating more whp and wtq in a turbo that is a direct bolt on to the stock manifold.It is kind of the in between in modding the R car between R Rated who is making insane hp and tq with a much larger turbo and a stock R car. You can see by my sig that I have pushed the stock block and internals about as far as it will go.Elak in answer to your comment; the only place I have ever dragged the car is Atlanta Dragway which is a really slow track. The last time I dragged it the best I could do was a 13.8 amongst a bunch of 14 second runs. So to go from 13.8 to 13.2 with the turbo upgrade and all of the cooling mods I have on this 4200 lb car was good enough for me.On a fast track that 13.2 run is maybe a 12.8 or faster run and that puts this car in E55 AMG, M5, new M3, C63 AMG (which are running 12.3 to 12.6 stock) and even the new CTS-V (which in the right driver is a 12.0 or less second car stock but has been running 12.3 to 12.6 stock on slow tracks) territory (those cars all being stock of course). Not to say my car is there but it is getting to where it could be in the neighborhood.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes I have to say those are great hp and tq #s..... but what I dont understand is what do you mean fast track and slow track? They all should be flat and 13.2 seconds is 13.2 seconds.... although altitude and humidity play a part though.... please explain a bit more. Thanks

AthruC · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (TGO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TGO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah really, wtf is a hybrid?</TD></TR></TABLE><IMG SRC="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Toyota_camry_hybrid.jpg/800px-Toyota_camry_hybrid.jpg" BORDER="0">

Needsdecaf · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (Elak R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Elak R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes I have to say those are great hp and tq #s..... but what I dont understand is what do you mean fast track and slow track? They all should be flat and 13.2 seconds is 13.2 seconds.... although altitude and humidity play a part though.... please explain a bit more. Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>Grip.

rushin_max · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (Needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> You can smooth your conscience by not lying.....because it wouldn't do you any good. They wouldn't affect this repair without being able to verify the symptoms themselves. A TNN is not a recall, it is a way to address a certain set of symptoms. Hell, most techs can't verify when you DO have symptoms. </TD></TR></TABLE>Ok, point taken. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> I just want to get everything on this car perfect, or like some say to " stage 0".Also thanx for responses on the tranny reliability, that eases my mind a little. I just wanted to find out if there's something special about the R's besides the HO engine and active suspension. For example, STI's have all their parts beefed-up/lightened as opposed to regular WRX's. I was wondering if it's the same deal w/ the R's vs regular awd S60's.

Elak R · Sep 5, 2008

Re: (Needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Needsdecaf »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Grip. </TD></TR></TABLE>As in gripping of the pavement? That would change times on a car that doesnt spin regardless??

rushin_max · Sep 5, 2008

Re: AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability (RainyS60R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RainyS60R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ... or trade it in on a Camry. </TD></TR></TABLE>LOL! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> I was actually thinking about getting one of those hybrid emblems and sticking it on the trunk somewhere so the cops don't think i'm too fast. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> However, I think it would be more appropriate for the gent. w/ the hybrid turbo set-up. How cool would that be having a "Hybrid" and then in small lettering underneath "KKK24 turbo". <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">

AWF21(aka TF-80SC) on '06+ R's ability/durability

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