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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"The Volvo S60, pictured, may be replaced by the new S80.

Deep-sixed?
Volvo considers replacing its S60 sedan

By JULIAN RENDELL

AutoWeek | Published 03/14/06, 8:58 am et

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Volvo's all-new S80 could replace the smaller S60 sedan in a radical product-plan overhaul under consideration at the Ford-owned Swedish carmaker.

Volvo hasn't committed to a replacement for the S60, and is mulling over whether the investment would be more profitably spent on new models like a crossover, coupe or sports car that would expand Volvo's range.

"For the future, Volvo has to maintain its existing sales, but also enter new segments, and we have to decide where to put our pot of investment cash," says Volvo's product planning chief Lex Kerssemakers.
Could this S80 replace the S60?
New Volvo design chief Steve Mattin (whose work at Mercedes included the SL) believes Volvo should explore the sports car market: "There is potential out there. Sports cars add sex appeal."

The future of the S60 is tied in with the next-generation S40/V50, due in 2010. Inevitably the S40 will grow in length to more than 177 inches, matching the BMW 3 Series and closing the gap on today's 180-inch S60. At the same time, the new S80 is a sportier model with an overall length maintained at 191 inches, squeezing the S60 between a bigger S40 and sportier S80.

As the S40 pushes upmarket, its place in the model range will be taken by an expanded range of C30-derived hatches and sedans to maintain Volvo's market coverage.

But dropping the S60 could throw a major wrench into Volvo's plan to expand production by 150,000 cars to 600,000 by 2009. The S60 currently makes up 60,000 sales, though it peaked just after launch in 2000 with 100,000 sales.

Though the plan looks logical in the long term, Volvo faces a struggle near term to convince S60 owners that a bigger S80 or smaller S40 will do the same job, or else move them into the new XC50 4x4 due for production approval this year.

The final decision lies at the highest level in Ford and its Premier Automotive Group. "If it was up to me, there will be a new S60. It sells well in the U.S., and I would be reluctant to let it go," says Kerssemakers."

Personally I think that would be a really BOGUS idea on Vovlo's behalf to drop the S60, one of its' best selling cars.


Modified by eVOLVOer at 4:35 PM 3-14-2006
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (eVOLVOer)

Again it is AUTOWEEK. And they are in the same class really as ROAD AND TRACK/CAR AND DRIVER/CONSUMERS REPORTS and the like. Good for a bit of news and or fun on what is out there in the rumor mill. BUT totally useless for real world news that matters to anyone other then themelves. I like many here i am sure, use them for only Specs and tests of cars already on the road. Then we use that data to make up OUR OWN minds on the cars. Weather we should test drive one or not. Nothing more nothing less. Before i would go getting my panties in a whad over anything they say about the S80 and S60 demise. I would get much more backup form other places then them and there competition. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Nato740)

Being a P2 car, I can't imagine the S60 being too expensive to manufacture, but I do wonder sometimes if they need it. Seems that the S40 is much bigger now, and most car companies if you look now run on a small car and a big car. I didn't even look at the S60 because I thought the S80 was small enough. I either want a small, economical car, or a big cushy car. I think a lot of the public agrees.

I also wasn't happy that the S60 didn't offer the T6. I wanted an inline 6 motor. All my cars have always been 6 cylinders. Not sure, but I like it that way. Call me crazy. You wouldn't be the first.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Majisto)

Quote, originally posted by Majisto »
Being a P2 car, I can't imagine the S60 being too expensive to manufacture, but I do wonder sometimes if they need it. Seems that the S40 is much bigger now, and most car companies if you look now run on a small car and a big car. I didn't even look at the S60 because I thought the S80 was small enough. I either want a small, economical car, or a big cushy car. I think a lot of the public agrees.

Is that why the S60 sells better than the S40?

Quote, originally posted by Majisto »
I also wasn't happy that the S60 didn't offer the T6. I wanted an inline 6 motor. All my cars have always been 6 cylinders. Not sure, but I like it that way. Call me crazy. You wouldn't be the first.

Ok.....you're crazy.
IMO, passing on the T6 with the GM 4 speed tranny was a good decision for the S60.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (MagoonR)

Ok...the S80 had the larger engine, was the larger car, and also looked a bit cleaner. I'm not that strange. The S80 seemed like a better deal. Should I have driven the S60 and given it a chance? Maybe, but this car replaces a Taurus, so I wanted a good sized trunk and the safety rating wasn't quite as high as the S80. I'm not coming into the field thinking Volvo is made by God, so I wanted something that got good on all tests like the Taurus did. The S60 did not. The S80 did. Simple as that.

And the Gm 4-speed isn't that bad. It's the same one in the supercharged Monte Carlo and Buick Regal GS. Why such ignorant bias anyway? I've had a GM trans fail on me in a Buick Century, but that was a light duty and it was because I bought the car and it recieved its first trans fluid at 100K. Never change the fluid when it's that old. Wish the previous owner had told me it was never changed.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Majisto)

Quote, originally posted by Majisto »
And the Gm 4-speed isn't that bad. It's the same one in the supercharged Monte Carlo and Buick Regal GS. Why such ignorant bias anyway?

Sorry but not an ignorant bias but merely pointing out that I prefer more than an outdated 4 speed automatic. That was big news in the mid 80's but these days, it takes at least 5 speeds to get it done both in performance and efficiency.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (MagoonR)

Well I agree that a 5-speed auto is better. My Explorer has one, and it helps control that rough 1/2 shift the older 4-speed had. The '06 Maxima I drove was great, and made the select-a-shift actually useful, but it's not required. In fact, the S80 won out over the Maxima so I didn't seem to think a 5-speed mattered.

What's required for efficiency is a driver who is intelligent enough to know his motor's opearing range, and control it. This can be done with an automatic no matter what anybody says. I consistently get better #s than the EPA in all my cars. I do this with fairly low tire pressures too.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Majisto)

Quote, originally posted by Majisto »
What's required for efficiency is a driver who is intelligent enough to know his motor's opearing range, and control it. This can be done with an automatic no matter what anybody says.

I agree to a certain extent. However, you will always be limited by what the tranny allows the engine to do. Thus.....more gears gives better opportunity for efficiency. Then again, you could always go back to the 3 speed autos. Or worse, the two speed that was in my first car.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (MagoonR)

Well I for one can not fault teh RWD GM trans that was in most Jags and Rolls/Bentley till recently. I thou do have issues with the GM 4L30E(built in France) that was in both my Isuzu's (Trooper/Rodeo)as well as the Caddy (Opel)Catera. The 94 Trooper one was very nice if a bit over whelmed in this app. Always thought they should have gone with the 4L60E like in light duty 1500/tahoe and med duty S10/blazer apps. The 98 Rodeo died of total failure(no reverse and only 3rd gear) at 14,000 under warrnety on a trip. Was interesting to find this out when i tryed to exit a toll booth in NJ and had only 3rd and then OD to start out in. And no it was not in LIMP HOME MODE. As if it were, the OD was not intended to work as it did. And would only have given me 3rd/reverse and nothing else. And I would have not had OD like i did have. I had just no 1/2/reverse. And was making funny shifts(not totally bad jsut getting wierd) at again 40,000 when lease was over. This from a totally NEW in crate trans not a rebuild of mine and slap back in. But that can be said for the GM FWD Transaxles in many foreign cars as well. More often then not I find that if it is in a GM car it is most times fine and works well if at all(there are a few exceptions). If it is in a NON-GM vech it is almost like they(GM trans plant) mess it up at the factory on purpose! And then sell them. Or maybe they sell them the seconds from the plant over run? Jag and Rolls/Bent being the few times I did not see this happen. I am jsut glad the 744(AW-71?) and the 965(AW-45?) do not have GM in them.
Sadley as well Majisto the Ford A4LD that was in my 91 Explorer was built in France too I recall and was a POS like you said. Always hunting for gears and never finding the right one.
Also the 4spd(nissan/assin-warner built) that was in my dads 89 Maxima SE was great and shifted nice and hard. The Renualt built 4spd in my moms 90 Maxima SE Limited shifts like potato soup. From day one and I drove a few too. It always makes me say are we there yet on shifts?


Modified by Nato740 at 3:37 PM 3-14-2006

Modified by Nato740 at 3:50 PM 3-14-2006
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Nato740)

Going back to the argument for an S60 (vs an S40)
Owned an S60, throughly comfortable car, nice dash, great seats, good size.
I've driven SEVERAL S40s for days on end.
HORRIBLE seats, too narrow (for me) dash seems like a minivan, ( too big, weird and strange). They may be fine for younger people and Volvo needs them but not to replace their traditional buyers
Volvo STILL needs the RIGHT $35,000 sedan with comfortable seats, a larger trunk and a bigger rear seat which is why many people are still looking for GOOD low mileage S70s, fasy going by the wayside, a car that sizewise is near perfect for many people. Why do you think the V70 is THE most popular wagon on the planet? It's THE right size for almost everyone
I think that Volvo should try other markets (younger) but at the same time they're slowly abandoning their buyer base. I know it's a tricky balancing act for a company without unliminted funds for new models

Modified by JRL at 4:41 PM 3-14-2006
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (JRL)

I thought the S40's backseats were ridiculously small in the first generation. The newer one I sat in at the dealership was nice, and I like the center stack, but not sure I agreed with the prices they were asking for it. The compact and midsize market is extremely competitive. The S60 might be needed since I agree that the S40 can't compete with the Accord, Camry, Sonata or Maxima. Maxima is probably the only sedan from Japan IMO with attitude, and I love the car. It was tough between the S80 and the Maxima. I got a good deal on the S80, and I like having Whips, but the Maxima sure is a beauty.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Majisto)

Quote, originally posted by Majisto »
I thought the S40's backseats were ridiculously small in the first generation.

But I did love being able to flip the bottom cushion up and fold the seatback flat on my 2000 S40. That was a great feature.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (MagoonR)

Quote, originally posted by MagoonR »


Sorry but not an ignorant bias but merely pointing out that I prefer more than an outdated 4 speed automatic. That was big news in the mid 80's but these days, it takes at least 5 speeds to get it done both in performance and efficiency.

In PA? You must have the mother of all radar detectors...
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (MagoonR)

Quote, originally posted by MagoonR »


Is that why the S60 sells better than the S40?


The five best-selling Volvo models, 2005:
1. XC90 85,994 (84,032)
2. V50 83,202 (47,743)
3. S40 75,136 (53,085)
4. V70 70,156 (74,656)
5. S60 62,528 (73,121)
(Figures for 2004 in brackets)
http://www.swedespeed.com/news....html
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (JRinPR)

Quote, originally posted by JRinPR »


In PA? You must have the mother of all radar detectors...

A general statement....that's all. Personally, I would not consider an auto from a manufacturer who cannot integrate new technology. Perhaps that is why GM's cars don't sell well with pushrods, cast iron blocks, and 4 speed automatics?
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (dpinto1)

Quote, originally posted by dpinto1 »


The five best-selling Volvo models, 2005:
1. XC90 85,994 (84,032)
2. V50 83,202 (47,743)
3. S40 75,136 (53,085)
4. V70 70,156 (74,656)
5. S60 62,528 (73,121)
(Figures for 2004 in brackets)
http://www.swedespeed.com/news....html

Worldwide, the S40 sells better than the S60 but I would bet that in the US, the S60 wins the battle. I can only speak to what I see in the local market.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (Nato740)

If any car should be phased out at all(absolutely no offense to neither S40 or V50 owners), I think it should be the S40. It's quite pricey for what it is, quite small, and now begining to look somewhat redundant in Volvo's product portfolio w/ the advent of the C30. Besides that, Volvo has always had a core midsize sedan and I really don't see them phasing out the S60 name, which already has obvious ties to both the S70 & 850(in the sense that there are the S60's predecessors). In time they could easily phase out the S40 into the C30 range(which was eluded to earlier) as Volvo's new "small" car. It wouldn't be such a bad idea if Volvo started focusing on market specific projects, that way they could better avoid situations such as this. Besides, isn't the next S60 already ready for launch next year????
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (eVOLVOer)

Quote, originally posted by eVOLVOer »
Besides, isn't the next S60 already ready for launch next year????

The 2007 S60 is carryover. The redesign isn't due out until MY2008 at the earliest.
 

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Re: Autoweek says S60 may go (eVOLVOer)

So if they phase out the S60, say, and make the new V70 out of the new S80, then they're almost, kind of, sort of not missing anything.

I do think the current low sales of the S60 are just because it's old, not because it's the wrong size or the wrong price. The S70 sold faster than Big Macs -- you still see more on the road than S60s, or at least I do.

What they really need is something between the S40 and the S80. Oh, wait. That'd be a new S60...
 
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