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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
in this thread, we met a fellow swedspeeder who works for VCNA and has been kind enough to offer an ear to what we as a community have to offer.

Please do not go JRL on him, and post what you think are the most urgent issues (safety related, or pandemic-type failures) rather than individual concerns

thanks all
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Ask VCNA thread (FEO)

I'll start

1. Uphill braking loss
2. Collar gear weakness
3. Slave cylinder weakness

low priority
1. Software for elimination of 4C messages (enabling the use of less expensive shock absorbers)
2. Software for tapering Haldex power-surges (and preserve the live of the weak collar gear, and the drive-train in general)
 

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Re: Ask VCNA thread (FEO)

Links would help. I'll start with #2 above (Collar/Bevel Gear Issues). Others could provide the other key links for VCNA considered research.

http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...age=1
 

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Re: Ask VCNA thread (Short Circuit)

Yes, angle gear is tops on the list, methinks, of things to talk to Volvo about. Especially with the wealth of information adykes (sp) was able to provide. Can I vote for that topic to be discussed first
 

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Re: Ask VCNA thread (FEO)

Get real people. Volvo doesn't care about the R owners anymore.......other than those that still have warranty left. Even then, they're counting down the days until they expire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
angle gear problem summary

-I will like to ask Joe (our moderator aka Needsdecaf) to keep a close eye on this thread to avoid abuses

-MacFreak, I think your issue is beyond help from internet forums, you should be calling them directly to follow up with your on-call claims

I think it is a good idea to focus on one issue at a time. By popular demand (and personal favoritism), I think the winner is the collar gear saga. In order to save you a lot of reading through MANY threads over the years, I will try to summarize the problem as best as I can

The problem:
A lot of Volvo AWDs (Rs are particularly prone due to higher power output) lose their AWD without abuse.

The cause
A weak component in the drive train (a hollow coupler between transmission and angle gear), called sleeve in Volvo terms, normally known as "collar gear"

Swedespeed's input
The rate of failure was high from day 1 in Rs, and this prompted research by a fellow member (adykes). He took on trying to study the root cause of the problem. Through extensive research on the both failed and new parts, he found out that the material used was not suitable application, being too soft.

Also through some detective work with a friendly parts department, we found out that Volvo revised the "sleeve" (collar gear) somewhere around 2007. Many of us thought this would be a solution, simply replacing failed parts with the upgraded design.

However, after sending a revised part to adykes, we found out that the part is made of the same weak material, and was only thinly coated in a nitride compound. Alex (adykes) also found that Volvo did a AWD design overhaul for the 2006+ geartronic Rs and XC90 V8, with a new angle gear that has a more solid case, and a different collar gear. After dissecting this one, we found it to be "case hardened" (metallurgical term) which more than tripled its hardness. This is good, but manual transmission Rs were left out of the upgrade cycle (the part was mates the TSFC-80 not the M66).

To this day we keep seeing weekly threads with failed collar gears, from 2004 to 2007. (I have been trying to keep track of failure rates)

The solution
a) a stronger collar gear design
b) software that moderates the sudden engagement of the Haldex
c) whatever tricks Volvo has up its sleeve

VCNA's role
a) Ideal scenario: warranty is extended on collar gear failures
b) good scenario: Volvo designs a new part and makes it available
c) ok scenario: Volvo provides technical input for us to design and fabricate a part ourselves
d) bad scenario: this effort gets ignored by Volvo

Many, many technical questions have been formulated during the research and brainstorming here
-is the collar gear a shear pin in the drivetrain? (quite expensive one)
-what can be done to prevent failure? is oxidation a breakdown mode?
-can this really be fixed with a Haldex software patch?
-(many more questions... but I will stop now)
 

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Re: angle gear problem summary (FEO)

Quote, originally posted by FEO »
-VCNA's role
a) Ideal scenario: warranty is extended on collar gear failures
b) good scenario: Volvo designs a new part and makes it available
c) ok scenario: Volvo provides technical input for us to design and fabricate a part ourselves
d) bad scenario: this effort gets ignored by Volvo

e) realistic scenario - see d
 

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Re: angle gear problem summary

Meh, nice try FEO http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

Folks could have given it until the guy's 1st post before they started poo-pooing on the whole thing. Well, hopefully Volvo sees how bad it really is out there, and sleeps on it, and then gets out his Action-Jackson flame suit and makes an appearance.
 

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Re: angle gear problem summary (JoeLvo)

What would be smartest thing Volvo could do? "Open source" this baby out! Provide the coding for the 4C and Haldex... let the big braniacs come up with some 4C software that works w/ stiffer (lowering) springs and makes the car's suspension what it should have been... let folks tinker with what the rear wheels do (except for that pesky angle gear/collar sleeve issue). The Volvo enthusiasts will do the work FOR them without asking for anything in return other than some support.

...to reiterate, however, the more pressing issues are the high-rate failures. As more of these cars are being purchased out-of-warranty and more and more folks are having to pay out-of-pocket for collar sleeve/angle gear replacements, slave cylinder/clutch replacements, new seat covers, etc., the chances of a class-action rearing it's ugly head becomes more and more of a reality. These issues need to be PROPERLY addressed, and can be as simple as an upgraded part upon failure - in addition to an extended warranty covering those specific parts. The solution does not have to be complicated.
 

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Re: angle gear problem summary (AthruC)

I agree with Adam , especially as class action is becoming more and more of a reality. I believe we should band together and threaten Volvo with a class actin suit in order for them to hear us and then maybe they will do something about our collar/ angle/ bevel gear issues and our 4C issues. And if the threat doesn't work
then the obvious would be we follow through with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: angle gear problem summary (crimnlmnded)

I would try to keep the lawyers out of this (or anything really) as much as possible.

Probably Chris (our VCNA friend) is taking massive flak from within as well....

Let's keep this an open discussion forum, if class action is the only solution we are left with, then we should pursue it LATER. At this point, they are being extremely open and friendly to us, we should do the same
 

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Re: angle gear problem summary (FEO)

FEO, you get props for your reasonable and thoughtful approach to resolving the collar gear saga.


VCNA should step up to the plate as it did with the electronic throttle body.
 

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Re:

FEO,

Props to keeping this reasonable. While I don't expect Volvo to do anything about our aging R's warranty wise or putting much if any effort into resolving issues- it just doesn't make business sense to do so. It would be nice PR to do something. Providing info for new collar gear comes to mind.

My question to VCNA:

Would their be an opportunity to work with Volvo through VNCA to provide information so the community could come up with a new collar gear design if it is something Volvo doesn't want to pursue?

Related to collar gear/slave cylinder:
Perhaps Volvo would be willing to share information related to design of the collar so a better part could be made if Volvo isn't willing to update the part themselves.

My '05 will need a new collar. I'm out of warranty and know that I will eventually have repairs. I expect that. I would though prefer a revised part was made available, so when I do replace the collar it will last longer as the repair is not cheap. Especially since the GT's seem to have gotten a stronger part. The thread by Adykes with all the research and information was excellent. http://********************/smile/emthup.gif

4c
an option to turn off 4C for those that would like to go with different suspension setups. At some point in time the shocks will get insanely expensive, without the ability to re-pack them supply will become and issue I imagine. If there is a reason it shouldn't be turned off, be nice to know why.

thank you,
Ryan

shortened thread to keep it related to tech. issues.

Modified by atacamaR at 12:13 PM 5-20-2009
 

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Re: Re: (atacamaR)

Quote, originally posted by atacamaR »
it just doesn't make business sense to do so

Ryan, while I share your sentiments regarding MT and sporty cars, I think you have answered your own question.

Personally, if this thread goes anywhere, I would like to see it be primarily about technical issues so we (R owners) can find ways to keep these cars running for a long time without dramtically changing the make-up of the car or braking the bank having to throw new parts at it on a regular basis.

I also understand that Volvo wants the parts and service revenue, but obviously losing customers long term has to be a concern.
 

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Re: Re: (I Roll)

Another issue which really sticks out is the dangerous lighting system in the North American R's. Without the supplemental halogen light the R's headlights do not provide enough lighting on high beam. This makes the car dangerous to drive where high beams are required. For a company that touts safety as a priority this is a serious oversight. Volvo should feel much shame.
 

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Re: Re: (ktm_525)

"Dangerous???" Not quite. If properly adjusted (maybe even a tad high), the headlamps are 'adequate,' along with the high beams.

While the design could have been much better (Volvo was slow on the uptake WRT projectors in these cars - and the overall design of the 'high beam' was lacking), to say that it is dangerous and that Volvo should re-address the issue is, quite honestly, ignorant and not the least-bit productive at this point.
 
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