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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been perusing this site ever since I purchased the above car back in June 2001. I was reassured with all of the positive owner feedback before deciding to buy ours. <p>Although I not see any negative posts here on the quality of said Volvos, I have had a disaster with mine - enough to rightfully so pursue lemon law buyback. We have spent more than 400 miles in one year on the road to the delearship too with only 18,000 miles on it in 15 months!<p>***<p>1. Rear module failed / needs to be reset (4 times)<br>Apparently it has happened again. When this fails, we have no fuel guage (always reads empty), no rear door locks (have to reach around into the back seat to lock and unlock them), no trunk release (have to pop off the manual lock cover and use the key each time), no rear headrest control (we cannot put down the headrests which greatly obstructs the view out the rear), garage door openers failed, sun roof will not close (thus we cannot drive it in the rain or leave it unattended) and who knows what else. Just this morning the service guy said that it was probably caused by using the key fob when it was in the ignition. Well we went out to dinner tonight, clicked the trunk release - and boom, the same failure!<p>2. Front control module failed / needed to be reset<br>The wipers acted on their own and eventually stopped in the middle of the windshield. After canceling her business meeting and instead heading directly to the dealer where they did nothing but move them down and say it probably needed a new switch, they sent my wife on her way with no working wipers! Volvo safety??? <p>3. Tires squeal upon cornering at any level of moderate yaw rate turn<br>The tire pressure has been checked repeatedly and even increased higher at times to no avail. This is not in keeping with its sports sedan type nor did it do this when new. <p>4. Halfshaft CV joints click when engaging the transmission into drive / reverse<br>This started within the last month - Pulling into drive from neutral results in two sharp click sounds emanating most likely from the CV joints (typical of worn CV joints). I also notice a slight amount of tire thump sound/vibration when driving on a smooth road.<p>5. The black rear bumper's insert "paint repair" has all peeled off and now it looks dappled with gray<p>6. Scrubbing noise/vibration only when turning the wheel left at or near the steering lock<br>Typically seen while parking and U-turns and sounds like the tire is hitting the fender well (it's not). - No problem found<p><br>7. Clunk/bobble/torque hit when releasing brakes from a stop (4 times)<br>A b-o-i-n-g feeling when releasing the brakes at a stop<p>8. Vehicle shudders when accelerating in reverse (3 times)<br>This is not a violent event, but we can feel the shudder / pulsation when moving in reverse. This feels similar to torque converter shudder<p>9. Loss of power steering. <br>This occurred while visiting family 500 miles from Michigan for the holidays. A severe grinding / pump sound with loss of power steering while turning. I inspected the power steering fluid to find it heavily foamed and below the dipstick. I finally found an approved type power steering fluid at an automotive part store and filled it up. - No cause was found.<p>Any comments or reassurances?
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

Hmm, I've got 14,000 miles on my S60 T5 and it's been running flawlessly. Well, I did need to top off the power steering fluid (can't tell where it's going, but it does seem to disappear. So I guess it just needsto be regularly topped off. Ok, I can do that.)<p>About the control modules, though, that's a serious problem. If it's repeating itself that means they haven't found the problem. <br>Remember that modern cars have a Local Area Network (LAN) strung through the car. This really reduces wiring complexity and weight (good) but introduces potential problems if the systems screw up. Looks like the dealer has gone to the basics but needs to look into things further.<p>What I'd look for is either<p>1) power supply interruption or instability. If the alternator puts out any AC component (should all be DC) then the ripple might affect the LAN and its timing. Have the dealer put an oscilloscope on the alternator output and make sure there isn't any hash coming out of the alternator. <p>2) Check the grounds on the modules. The most often overlooked item (and related to the power problem) is a slightly faulty ground wire that isn't quite making solid contact. The dealer has to check ALL the grounds throughout the car and make sure they're tight. The best thing to do is to get a good milli-ohmmmeter and check the resistance across the bolted joint--it should be in the milli-ohm range.<p>3) intermittent wiring in the LAN itself could cause data transfer glitches. Once the glitch occurs, the module doesn't get the proper data and shuts down, needing to be reset. The dealer needs to check the wiring throughout the car and make sure proper contact is made at EACH connector point.<p>This is a LOT of work. If the dealer isn't willing to do that, just take the car back the requisite 6 times and then get your money back on the lemon law (if that's the way your state works--it varies from state to state.)<p>The module failures are clearly a safety issue and you need to tell the dealer that the car just isn't safe until he fixes it. (no wipers in the rain?!?! That's bad.)<p>He's going to have to get his nose dirty to find the problem. Hopefully they'll give you a loaner until they find it.<p>Best of luck. I've been really happy with my car and I only wish one day you can experience the same.
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

You raise some good points, so I thought I'd weigh in and let you know that all of the readers here aren't unqualified cheerleaders for Volvo.<p>IMHO, Volvo has some work to do on the S60. I have been generally happy with my car (2001 S60 2.4T w/ almost everything), but I have noticed a disturbing tendency by Volvo to cut corners in some areas, which makes me wonder about the long-term durability of this car. Volvo has used *very* cheap parts in some locations (i.e., excessive use of plastic body parts, the fuel filler door hinge, the in-dash cup holder, etc.) which have broken with light use. The car also has a number of squeaks, rattles and buzzes that speak to a certain lack of attention to build quality. <p>I realize that the cup holder breaking doesn't indicate that the transmission will fail, but cheap is cheap and I have to wonder how much of that cost cutting philosophy carried over into the actual working parts of the car. Overall, I do not believe that the quality of the car is consistent with the $30,000+ price tag. I hope I'm wrong and I get my 200K miles out of the car.<p>I don't think you get your money's worth from a Volvo S60. 2.4T. The car is safe, but not light years ahead of other vehicles. The car is sporty, but is easily smoked by an Altima, or even a 6 cyinder Accord. The car is well equipped, but no more so than any other high-end sedan.<p>After a year or so of ownership, I do have a little buyer's remorse. If I had to buy today, I would look really hard at Lexus ES 300, Nissan Altima or Maxima, and an Audi A4. I'd consider another S60, but I think it is getting trounced by the competition these days. <p>Let me go put on my flame-proof shorts . . .
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (fishman)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The car is sporty, but is easily smoked by an Altima, or even a 6 cyinder Accord. The car is well equipped, but no more so than any other high-end sedan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>You are not serious about the Accord statement, are you? I have BEATEN 6-cyl. Accords with 2.4Ts and AWDs, of all cars!!! Smoked by the Altima? Sure, it will get "smoked" (sic) by the 3.5L model but so what? It will also get smoked by a Subie WRX. And??? The Altima will get OUThandled by the 2.4T or the AWD. And pray you are not in either car if you are ever T-boned or get rear-ended or hit head on.<p><BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If I had to buy today, I would look really hard at Lexus ES 300, Nissan Altima or Maxima, and an Audi A4. I'd consider another S60, but I think it is getting trounced by the competition these days. <br> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>You are right about your flame-proof shorts as only the A4 is a worthy car...The Altima? Well, that was covered above. Lexus ES300? You can't be serious, are you? Talking about going from one extreme to the other. Looking at sport sedans (A4, S60, etc.) and going to the Japanese grandfather's car...Have you really taken a look at the new ES300? Its design and/or handling, do they remind you of sportiness???<p><br>Yannis
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (GrecianVolvo)

Get'em Yannis!
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (fishman)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><br>After a year or so of ownership, I do have a little buyer's remorse. If I had to buy today, I would look really hard at Lexus ES 300, Nissan Altima or Maxima, and an Audi A4. I'd consider another S60, but I think it is getting trounced by the competition these days. <p><br>Let me go put on my flame-proof shorts . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br>owch! stay away from the maxima<br><A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00015.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00015.htm</A><p>heehhehe, my 93 volvo is safer! <br><A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/95005.htm</a>
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

Our 2001 S60 2.4M has 18,000 kms on it and it really hasn't given any major problems.<p>I have had to replace the entire radio because the fast forward button was jammed - and beleive me, it was not abused. I did replace it under warranty, but what happens when it breaks and the warranty is expired. Do I have to pay $600 for a new radio just to replace a button. That type of cheapness concerns me.<p>I do have some concerns about the longevity of the vehicle. For instance, I can tell you that the interior materials and the exterior paint on my S70 are superior to the S60. Volvo produced a better performing higher contented vehicle and sold it at the same price - to do that they had to cut corners somewhere.
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

Our '99 S70 AWD was a lemon/disaster, 6 weeks of problems, each week it was something new before the dealer swapped us into our GLT and gave us cash back. No major problems with our S70 since.<p>I can't speak for the current generation of Volvos but the two pre-'01s that we own seem to be doing just fine. I have heard of some transmission issues with the 98-00 generation cars but we have been fortunate so far, both cars have under 35k miles.
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (GrecianVolvo)

<Sound of fire extinguisher><p>Whew.<p>My point (which I will admit was not made particularly well) was that the 2.4T at ~200hp is barely matching cars costing $10,000 less. Sure there are other things the Volvo does much better, particularly safety. That's why I got one. However, when you start finding cheap build problems at less than 15,000 miles you start to wonder if you made the right choice. I had several of the same problems as the original poster and really expected a better quality new car than I got. I can see why he is concerned.<p>The ES 300 was a typo, should have read IS 300. I agree. No comparison. My bad. You do have to admit (OK, you don't HAVE to) that the Altima is a lotta car and a lotta engine for the money.<p>As for the 6cyl Accord, maybe I had the misfortune to take on one that was tuned, but I was embarrassed by one the other day when I stayed even with one, then he pulled away from me at 80mph with me going flat out. Didn't see a coffee can pipe, but you never know. Really annoyed me.
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (fishman)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><Sound of fire extinguisher><p>Whew.<p>My point (which I will admit was not made particularly well) was that the 2.4T at ~200hp is barely matching cars costing $10,000 less.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>I definitely disagree with that. HP rating is not all. The torque delivery on the 2.4T surpasses many higher rated cars, whether they are cheaper or more expensive.<p><BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>However, when you start finding cheap build problems at less than 15,000 miles you start to wonder if you made the right choice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Most definitely...I would probably feel the same.<p><BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I had several of the same problems as the original poster and really expected a better quality new car than I got. I can see why he is concerned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>I would be concerned, too. But, thankfully, you two are the exception rather than the rule.<p><BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The ES 300 was a typo, should have read IS 300. I agree. No comparison. My bad. You do have to admit (OK, you don't HAVE to) that the Altima is a lotta car and a lotta engine for the money.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>I thought so but I could not resist the jab. But speaking of "cheapo" materials...have you spent some time inside an IS300? Talking about lots of plastic, cheap chrome, a car that does not belong to someone who can afford it. The interior definitely does not imply "premium". And try sitting behind the driver...ATROCIOUS lack of space. Have you seen the trunk? HIDEOUS! And they want me to pay $30,000 or more? Fuhgett about it!<p>As far as the Altima 3.5 (because the 2.5 is average), I would agree. Great engine and space for the money but that is where it ends. Typical Nissan, great engine, mediocre the rest of the features. But the new Infiniti G35 is impressive.<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

Thanks for the replies! We like the car especially the seat comfort and we were sold on the safety (with my infant son). I surprise many people when I say we have had issues with ours.<p>Our dealer said they have had another person in with a similar issue (like 15 times!). I am not sure what they ended up doing in their case as he did not elaborate too much. Supposedly this is a known issue and they have sent back numerous modules to Sweden for testing (Delear-speak now).<p>I am a powertrain engineer so I know the CAN or SCP or whatever Volvo uses can be corrupted and grounding issues generate mysterious failure modes, but to lose so many important features over and over gets old really fast.<p>So I sent the dealer my list and a copy of the Letter of Notification of Defect to Manufacturer I plan on filing if they do not fix the items this time. The MI Lemon law requires four repeat repairs. The problem has to substantially impair the use, value, or safety of the vehicle. Ironically, these are the reasons why we purchased the Volvo in the first place. After a 1/2 hour wait we had to go to enterprise car rentals (paid by the delear) to get an old Escort! After a few suggestions they moved us up into a 1999 base Taurus. Not exactly a nice trade for an S60...<p>Anyway, I will keep you abreast of the issues and what the outcome is. I hope to remain in the Volvo family, but right now we are rather frustrated and just want a reliable car irrespective of anything else right now.<p>If anyone else has seen any of the above issues, please let me know.<p>Thanks!
 

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Re: Anyone else's 2001 S60 2.4T a LEMON? (s60_mi)

Hmm, notice they're concentrating on the module and not the intermediate stuff like the cabling, grounds and alternator AC component? Sometimes these service guys aren't too bright.<p>But it sounds like you're getting into a position where they'll be forced to buy back the car. At least you'll be rid of the problems by then.<p>Sad, really, I hope you get another one that doesn't have the problems.<p>Best of luck.
 
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