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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1205_sport_luxury_sedan_comparison/

Their summary of the S60 T5: "The S60 won our hearts with its ability to take the high-stress runs we dealt it in its competent, confident stride. When it comes time to go home, it coddles you. It sips fuel penuriously. And it looks damn sexy. For all this, Volvo charges just over $35 large. Yup, this is one special Swede."

I had to write in my opinion on what they used for the comparo (check the comments section). A $35K Volvo vs. a $50K BMW?!?!? Let's make it even - a $50K BMW against a $43K S60 T6 R-Design...
 

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I saw this article and was very pleased reading the results; especially since my fiancee and I are in the market for luxury car in this segment. I really feel like though MotorTrend could have skimped on the options with the 328i and made it around the $40-42,000 range to keep it on par with the rest of the group; which was in the mid to high $30,000 range. If they are were going to make this a $50,000 challenge than yes they should have just brought the T6 R-Design to the table and let it show what you can get for that sticker. MotorTrend really should have ordered the T5 with the Dynamic Pkg ($900) to get the upgraded suspension to give it a little better fighting chance against the 328i, or even just upgrading to the 17x8 Njord wheels would have gave the handling a better feeling.

Regardless its really nice to see the S60 beating out a lot of respectable luxury models which I feel like was Volvo's goal in targeting the A4, C-Class and 3-Series.
 

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The BMW 3-series is the nicest Jetta I've ever driven. Competent? Sure. Special? Absolutely not. I'll take my Dynamic-equipped S60 all day and that has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Not surprising MT ranked it first since they're in to that sort of thing. To be fair the extra $9K of equipment does not appear to be performance (engine/suspension/etc) enhancing but still takes away from the legitimacy a bit.
 

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The BMW 3-series is the nicest Jetta I've ever driven. Competent? Sure. Special? Absolutely not. I'll take my Dynamic-equipped S60 all day and that has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Not surprising MT ranked it first since they're in to that sort of thing. To be fair the extra $9K of equipment does not appear to be performance (engine/suspension/etc) enhancing but still takes away from the legitimacy a bit.
I thought there's had the M-Sport Package which gave the car Sport+ driving experience? But I agree with you that I would rather have the S60 over the new 3-series, the competition is definitely caught up or at least catching up to BMW's formula. Heck the new 335i is posting identical numbers to the T6 R-Design or for the price of a 328i you could just go with a nicely equipped T6 and get slightly better engine performance or a fully loaded T5 being a little slower.
 

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The BMW 3-series is the nicest Jetta I've ever driven. Competent? Sure. Special? Absolutely not. I'll take my Dynamic-equipped S60 all day and that has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Not surprising MT ranked it first since they're in to that sort of thing. To be fair the extra $9K of equipment does not appear to be performance (engine/suspension/etc) enhancing but still takes away from the legitimacy a bit.
Seriously? Have you driven the F30? Jetta? Uh, wow. That's just pretty short sighted.
 

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I thought there's had the M-Sport Package which gave the car Sport+ driving experience? But I agree with you that I would rather have the S60 over the new 3-series, the competition is definitely caught up or at least catching up to BMW's formula. Heck the new 335i is posting identical numbers to the T6 R-Design or for the price of a 328i you could just go with a nicely equipped T6 and get slightly better engine performance or a fully loaded T5 being a little slower.
No, you do not need to have MSport to have Sport Plus.

Performance is not all about straight line, either.
 

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I clicked on this link to come and congratulate all you S60 owners for owning what is finally being recognized as the great car that it is. Since my first drive of the current S60, I knew it was a very strong contender in the class. For it to have dusted the competition in an extremely competitive category is high praise indeed. Congrats!
 

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Seriously? Have you driven the F30? Jetta? Uh, wow. That's just pretty short sighted.
Uh, yeah, I sure have. Wouldn't have made the comment if I hadn't ;)

I drove the F30 at a local dealer's event last Fall. Very nice car but lacking much in the way of special feeling. I could care less for the upward trend in pricing, and there is nothing "value" in that car. It certainly is not worth $15K more than my comparably-equipped T6. I'm not saying it isn't competent at what it does, but it's nothing exciting. The S60 with a Dynamic chassis setup is light-years ahead of the 3-series in the interior department and certainly on par in handling/driving excitement.
 

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No, you do not need to have MSport to have Sport Plus.

Performance is not all about straight line, either.
I was talking about handling as well:

2012 T6 AWD R-Design
Skidpad - .88g
Braking - 174ft

2012 335i
Skidpad - .89g
Braking - 164ft (obvisouly the Volvo weighs more because of the AWD)
 

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Yes, the F30 is more expensive, but it also has automatic engine start-stop, more expensive and lighter chassis components, and a very advanced braking system. The climate control and stereo settings are matched to the key the way the seat and mirror positions are in a Volvo. Automatic windshield demisting. Knee airbags. The 328 is noticeably faster than the T5 and the 335 is noticeably faster than the T6 (even with polestar). It's available with a manual transmission, which increases production and design costs. The value is there, whether or not you notice it when comparing the features each car has.

The F30 3-series is a more advanced car than the Y20 S60, but hey... let's focus on the fact that a Volvo just beat both a Mercedes and an Audi in the same review and was well ahead of the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. :)
 

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Yes, the F30 is more expensive, but it also has automatic engine start-stop, more expensive and lighter chassis components, and a very advanced braking system. The climate control and stereo settings are matched to the key the way the seat and mirror positions are in a Volvo. Automatic windshield demisting. Knee airbags. The 328 is noticeably faster than the T5 and the 335 is noticeably faster than the T6 (even with polestar). It's available with a manual transmission, which increases production and design costs. The value is there, whether or not you notice it when comparing the features each car has.

The F30 3-series is a more advanced car than the Y20 S60, but hey... let's focus on the fact that a Volvo just beat both a Mercedes and an Audi in the same review and was well ahead of the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. :)
The 335i isn't noticeably faster than a T6 with Polestar tune, they pulled identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and the 335i was a manual!
 

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Yes, the F30 is more expensive, but it also has automatic engine start-stop, more expensive and lighter chassis components, and a very advanced braking system. The climate control and stereo settings are matched to the key the way the seat and mirror positions are in a Volvo. Automatic windshield demisting. Knee airbags. The 328 is noticeably faster than the T5 and the 335 is noticeably faster than the T6 (even with polestar). It's available with a manual transmission, which increases production and design costs. The value is there, whether or not you notice it when comparing the features each car has.

The F30 3-series is a more advanced car than the Y20 S60, but hey... let's focus on the fact that a Volvo just beat both a Mercedes and an Audi in the same review and was well ahead of the Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura. :)
If you really think those features are worth a $15K+ premium over a comparably equipped S60, then I suppose your decision is an easy one! You'll find me back in the dark ages of pressing the front windshield defog button every now and again.
 

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Uh, yeah, I sure have. Wouldn't have made the comment if I hadn't ;)

I drove the F30 at a local dealer's event last Fall. Very nice car but lacking much in the way of special feeling. I could care less for the upward trend in pricing, and there is nothing "value" in that car. It certainly is not worth $15K more than my comparably-equipped T6. I'm not saying it isn't competent at what it does, but it's nothing exciting. The S60 with a Dynamic chassis setup is light-years ahead of the 3-series in the interior department and certainly on par in handling/driving excitement.
No, the BMW is never going to hold the value candle to the Volvo.

Light years ahead in the interior? Hardly.

On par in handling / driving excitement? Not quite. But a lot closer than in the past. The S60 is a very good car and a very entertaining chassis, despite it's ungodly amount of weight on the nose. It may match the BMW in outright grip, but under heavy transitional movements, the BMW's more neutral balance will show it through.

However, I give massive kudos to Volvo that can legitimately compared to a brand new 335 without having to make any excuses for itself. It just goes to show what a good car the S60 is.

Shame I don't fit in it, or I'd be driving one. . If the S60 and the V40 are any indication of what the next S80 will be like, I can't wait to drive one.
 

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It's nice to see the T5 finally getting some recognition. I knew it was special the moment I first drove it. It's also nice to see it still reviewed well with the touring chassis. Nice job Volvo!
 

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The 335i isn't noticeably faster than a T6 with Polestar tune, they pulled identical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times and the 335i was a manual!
I think you're looking at the previous model year or some bad numbers. Motortrend took the 335i to 60 in 4.7s and cleared the quarter mile in 13.3 @ 103.3mph. That was with an automatic.


If you really think those features are worth a $15K+ premium over a comparably equipped S60, then I suppose your decision is an easy one! You'll find me back in the dark ages of pressing the front windshield defog button every now and again.
They aren't worth $15K+ and I think you're being extremely optimistic pricing an equally equipped Volvo that much lower. I've priced the S60 against the 3 series and A4 about thirty different ways and the difference (if they are really equally equipped or as close as possible) is rarely close to $5,000. Can you be more specific? Maybe there's something I'm missing.

That said, whether it is worth it from a value standpoint is not the same as saying it cost that much more to engineer. An S60 T6 AWD can be equipped as well as any Maserati GranTurismo Coupe, but that doesn't mean the Maserati isn't still worth it's $100,000+ price tag. The same applies to the BMW.

Keep in mind that Volvo had statistics showing that wealthier buyers were more likely to buy the previous generation S60 than the previous generations of the BMW 3. Different people have different priorities. I probably won't ever drive a BMW because I don't like the image that comes with driving one. It doesn't fit me like a Volvo or an Audi would. But that doesn't mean the 3-series isn't a good buy if you want one and can afford one.


On par in handling / driving excitement? Not quite. But a lot closer than in the past. The S60 is a very good car and a very entertaining chassis, despite it's ungodly amount of weight on the nose. It may match the BMW in outright grip, but under heavy transitional movements, the BMW's more neutral balance will show it through.
I would go so far as to say the previous generation E90- 3-series was not better than the Y20 S60. The Y20 S60 is, I am guessing, one of the vehicles that threatened the 3-series and made BMW work so hard to improve it to maintain their position as the benchmark. But I do think they have maintained their position as the benchmark, and quite well.
 

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I think you're looking at the previous model year or some bad numbers. Motortrend took the 335i to 60 in 4.7s and cleared the quarter mile in 13.3 @ 103.3mph. That was with an automatic.




They aren't worth $15K+ and I think you're being extremely optimistic pricing an equally equipped Volvo that much lower. I've priced the S60 against the 3 series and A4 about thirty different ways and the difference (if they are really equally equipped or as close as possible) is rarely close to $5,000. Can you be more specific? Maybe there's something I'm missing.

That said, whether it is worth it from a value standpoint is not the same as saying it cost that much more to engineer. An S60 T6 AWD can be equipped as well as any Maserati GranTurismo Coupe, but that doesn't mean the Maserati isn't still worth it's $100,000+ price tag. The same applies to the BMW.

Keep in mind that Volvo had statistics showing that wealthier buyers were more likely to buy the previous generation S60 than the previous generations of the BMW 3. Different people have different priorities. I probably won't ever drive a BMW because I don't like the image that comes with driving one. It doesn't fit me like a Volvo or an Audi would. But that doesn't mean the 3-series isn't a good buy if you want one and can afford one.




I would go so far as to say the previous generation E90- 3-series was not better than the Y20 S60. The Y20 S60 is, I am guessing, one of the vehicles that threatened the 3-series and made BMW work so hard to improve it to maintain their position as the benchmark. But I do think they have maintained their position as the benchmark, and quite well.
Car and Driver did it in 5.3s with a manual, the 335is models supposedly do under 5.0s.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-bmw-335i-sedan-test-review
 

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Hooray for the little engine that could.! Having just given up a 3 series bmw coupe for my new S60 T5, I would give the bmw overall handling points with its balanced rwd characteristics. But the newer BMWs have iffy rides mostly caused by runflats leaving them a bit lumbering and not the "ultimate driving machines" of yore. I have found the S60 T5 a more nimble, comfortable and satisfying drive and not at all surprised it finished so well in the MT comparo.
 

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I probably won't ever drive a BMW because I don't like the image that comes with driving one. It doesn't fit me like a Volvo or an Audi would.
I did buy one BMW (a 2001 740i) and really liked the car, but I didn't care for the company in the service department waiting area. I found that I didn't fit the target demographic. There is a lot of truth in the old adage about porcupines and BMWs...
 

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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1205_sport_luxury_sedan_comparison/

Their summary of the S60 T5: "The S60 won our hearts with its ability to take the high-stress runs we dealt it in its competent, confident stride. When it comes time to go home, it coddles you. It sips fuel penuriously. And it looks damn sexy. For all this, Volvo charges just over $35 large. Yup, this is one special Swede."

I had to write in my opinion on what they used for the comparo (check the comments section). A $35K Volvo vs. a $50K BMW?!?!? Let's make it even - a $50K BMW against a $43K S60 T6 R-Design...
I tried to purchase a Motor Trend with that article, but the one on the news stand did not include it........what issue/month was that article in???
 
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