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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is one of the nuggets of info the northern virginia regional rep shared with me today. Apparently his wife's car rattles too and it's futile in trying to diagnose since it's a normal operating characteristic. According to him, I should've went with one of the regular suspension options.

Not only can we expect the Four-C suspension to rattle, the regional rep also mentioned that "Volvo does not design cars with noises and rattles in mind since they aren't luxury cars"?!?!

Oh really! When Volvo is testing their cars against their supposed competition like the Germans, Lexus, Infiniti, and Cadillac, and the rest of the automotive world who seem to get this right - do their engineers say to themselves "Oh that's ok, we're Volvo!"

The Volvo rep offered a "trade assist" to put me in a new car without Four-C. After talking to the sales GM for over an hour, it turned out I would have to make up about $5k for them to put me in a comparable new car.

So in other words, after purchasing a defected Volvo product and having to live with it for almost a year with the car constantly in the shop, the dealer offers to trade in our car (below value) so they can turnaround profit selling it used and sell me a new car coughing up even more money and extending loan terms! What a scam. Of course by the time I realize what they are trying to pull, the field rep has left already. Leaving me where we began about a year ago with a sorry rattling Volvo.:mad:

Some of you may have read my previous posts - I've been dealing with a suspension rattle with my car since I purchased it in Aug 2012: 2011-S60-Four-C-Suspension-Shuddering-Issue
 

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Hog wash....
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You know what, maybe it is hogwash. My experience may not be representative of Volvo elsewhere, but this was pretty much word for word what the field rep told me earlier this morning. I've enjoyed just about everything else about the S60. Unfortunately, this rattling suspension really ruins the ownership experience of the car for me.
 

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I am in the automotive business and Volvo is actually a customer of mine therefore, I know for a fact that there are many checks and balances in the development & validation process where a noise on every shock would be caught.

Additionally, NVH (noise, vibration and harsness) are charateristics that the entire industry is very tuned in to.

Sounds like the guy you talked to didnt have a solid answer and was trying to "shut you up".
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Obviously every automaker, including Volvo, puts emphasis on NVH and works to reduce it through various constraints. But is Volvo aware of and not addressing performance issues with their Four-C suspensions? Why is it offered as an option if there are potential material issues with the technology?

My car suspension rattles on slightly undulating roads and it's very pronounced driving in the city. The field rep told me this is normal symptom of Four-C as it gets older. My car is less than a year old with less than 10k miles and I find this completely unacceptable for a near-luxury car.

Because this issue was deemed "normal operation" by the field rep, the only next step is to escalate the issue to the executive office. Is this absolutely necessary??
 

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This sounds like total nonsense to me. I have not heard of complaints from other 4-C owners about suspension rattles, so that makes this scenario even less likely.
 

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Yes, I would reach higher up. That's not an acceptable answer.

Unless you're talking about some sort of rattle the rest of us would consider normal. But this does sound like a lot of BS you've been fed. Especially "Volvo is not considered a luxury car." Their own US commercials mention Volvo being the fastest growing luxury brand in the US, don't they?
 

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I have a 4C suspension and it does not rattle... I don't think this is "normal" behavior or that it's something that Volvo would dismiss on the basis that they're not a luxury brand. I would also try to reach higher up...
 

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Our long-term 2011 with 4C after 17,000 miles did not rattle while driving around Northern VA and DC. DC roads will jar anything loose if possible.

Did they examine the strut bearings? Those can make rattle sounding noises. My '07 VW GTI had failing strut bearings after 7k, this was a production defect affecting many GTI owners.

Are you able to isolate the noise? front/rear, driver side/passenger side? What may appear to be 4C related could be something unrelated to another part of the vehicle. Example: my EZ-Pass holder recently started making a rattling noise. I thought it was coming from my center console (114k on my XC70, it could be anything :) ) - but I ended up putting some felt on it and the noise was gone.

Your S60 may just take a tech a little more time to diagnosis the issue.

If you can replicate the condition on the roads near the dealership, test drive another 4C S60 on the same roads to try and replicate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The dealer examined the suspension multiple times and replaced bushings, bearings, struts - pretty much the whole front suspension. So I spoke with a customer rep in the executive office and she advised that there is no further course of action available with Volvo and to look into state lemon laws. After a year of headache and lots of patience, this is really a disappointing outcome. I'd be happy if they were able to fix the suspension rattle or offered an in-kind replacement without 4C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The dealer also provided other 4C S60s for comparison on two separate occasions. The difference between those cars and mine were immediately noticeable - it felt much more solid and did not rattle at all.
 

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There is NO other word for it so I will shout out as loud as I can, "Utter bullsh*t!!!!!!!". They are just trying to shut you up and tell you to go home! It's probably because the fix would just cost them a lot. Guess what!? It's still on F-ing warantee!!! Therefore your ass (talking to the dealer) is gonna pay for it!!! LAWSUIT LAWSUIT LAWSUIT!!!!
 

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And that person who spoke with you ought to be fired ON THE SPOT. Volvo's own website says "Volvo: Luxury Cars".
 

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The dealer also provided other 4C S60s for comparison on two separate occasions. The difference between those cars and mine were immediately noticeable - it felt much more solid and did not rattle at all.
As I recall wdimagineer also had issues like this with his first S60...unable to fix the problems, Volvo exchanged his S60 with a new one.
If other S60s with 4C did not rattle, then obviously the way your car behaves is not normal. If they're unable to fix it...you should be allowed to exchange it at no cost to you...
It's really a shame that this happens though... I love my S60 and it's annoying to hear others are unable to enjoy it - mainly due to dealer problems as far as I can tell.
 

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that sucks. my car has a drivetrain noise- the rep said also a normal concern. but no other car i've driven does it. i got no trade assist. i feel your pain.
 

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The dealer examined the suspension multiple times and replaced bushings, bearings, struts - pretty much the whole front suspension. So I spoke with a customer rep in the executive office and she advised that there is no further course of action available with Volvo and to look into state lemon laws. After a year of headache and lots of patience, this is really a disappointing outcome. I'd be happy if they were able to fix the suspension rattle or offered an in-kind replacement without 4C.
Our first Volvo was a '99 S70 AWD that was in the shop for various issues over six weeks and left my wife stranded once. Don Beyer Falls Church didn't hesitate to provide us with 3 alternative car options when I told them we did not want the car back. If Volvo Customer Service recommended Virginia's Lemon Law move forward with that and get into a 2013 T6 AWD R-Design in Rebel Blue (no 4C) -- hopefully this hasn't ruined your Volvo experience.

Note in VA: All claims must be filed within 18 months following the date you first received the vehicle.
 

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If you're saying you would have to pay $5,000 to replace your 2011 with a comparable 2013, on the surface that doesn't sound like too bad a deal to me. If it's $5,000 to replace your 2011 with another 2011 with comparable mileage but no 4C, that's BS. Remember that right now you also have the advantage of all the Volvo promotions on 2012 and 2013 models, which is of significant value to you.

Based on personal experience, I can tell you to keep the pressure on. It's worked for me in more than one case where the vehicle was unsatisfactory, unsafe or just junk. Bad cars happen, and cars with factory design defects happen. But it's not the end of the world.

If your 2011 qualifies for the Lemon Law in your state, pursue that. However, that will leave Volvo (and/or the dealer) with a car that has a branded title, which pretty much means they won't be able to fix it and resell it through normal channels. Nobody likes having to deal with a Lemon Law car; instead, I would suggest this direction:

1. Don't threaten to sue. No matter who you are, they have more time and money than you. Threatening to go to the news media or "tell everyone you know that the car is junk" will fall on deaf ears. This is not a Pinto that will explode or a Bronco II that will roll over and kill your family; it's a car with a rattle (that may or may not indicate a larger problem) that's annoying and disappointing to drive and is providing you with an unexpectedly poor ownership experience. (You hate having to even look at this car, right?)
2. Maintain civility and focus on your disappointment with the vehicle and your desire to stick with the Volvo brand.
3. Be persistent and escalate to the next higher level if necessary. The regional manager is not the end of the line, although he or she may be authorized to make a deal on behalf of Volvo.
4. Don't expect to get a brand-new 2013 in exchange for your 2011. After all, it's now 2 model years old and you've put miles on it - and you want to show that you're trying to be reasonable in getting this situation resolved. Unless your 2011 is a mess, offer to accept the highest KBB/Black Book/NADA/MMR trade-in price (for top condition); as an alternative, subtract 55.5¢ per mile (the IRS mileage reimbursement standard) from your original purchase price and use that as a trade-in value. You may have to eat some of the incidental costs for things such a documentation and title.
5. Ask to buy the new vehicle at true dealer cost, not "dealer invoice." That means you get the holdback but pay the advertising fee and destination charge, since both are legitimate costs for the vehicle.
6. Insist that Volvo contribute a couple of thousand dollars for customer goodwill to reduce the purchase price. Don't put everything on the dealer, who's not getting anything out of this deal except the hope that you'll bring it back for service and tell other people what a satisfied customer you are.

So, if your complaint is perceived as legitimate, you should be able to make a reasonable deal. OTOH, if you're perceived as a whiner who's just trying to bluff his way into a new car (it happens), then just dump the 2011 and move onto something else. Life's too short to let a car make you crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
thanks for the recs - will take your valuation advice into account moving forward. i haven't made any threats and don't plan to with Volvo or the dealer. the first post was really just venting after having to deal with the BS field rep and dealer sales tactics.

i'm starting the lemon law process since it was suggested by apparently the highest levels available to us at corporate. While writing the letter of notification to the manufacturer as required by VA and pulling together documentation, i've gathered that the issue was documented by the dealer 10 days of ownership, the car has been in 8 times over 11 months and spent 24 days in the shop.

the trade assist deal provided by the dealer does seem like a good deal on the surface. they offered a 2013 model at cost, applied all available promotions, and included Volvo corporate contributions to help make up some of the difference. what turned me off was the extremely low trade-in value the dealer tried to quote. the rep's official diagnosis of the car is operating as normal and my car is in excellent condition with low miles, so the dealer can resell as a certified used car. it felt like the dealer was getting a much better deal taking money from Volvo and me. i dont expect any less from car dealerships - but i wasn't prepared or informed enough to make a deal with them today.

anyway, I'm mailing off the lemon notification tomorrow and Volvo will have 15 days to rectify this issue under Virginia's lemon law. maybe it'll trigger additional options or apply more pressure on Volvo to provide more satisfactory resolution
 

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Good for you. Go get 'em. Sounds like BS from everyone you have dealt with. Shout loud enough, write enough letters, use all available social media tools and you will get satisfaction.

Now, I must say, we currently have 22k on our car and it has been trouble free. We love our Volvo and are fairly new to the Volvo family, having previously been avid Honda/Acura owners.

JB
 

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Not only can we expect the Four-C suspension to rattle, the regional rep also mentioned that "Volvo does not design cars with noises and rattles in mind since they aren't luxury cars"?!?!
I'll have to keep that in mind next time I'm in the market for a car.
 
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