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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been looking for a 1999-2000 S80 2.9 non turbo for my mother. We have looked at one local Volvo dealership, they have a white 1999 with 49K miles that is CPO. The sticker price on this was $23.9K. We went to another Volvo dealership about 2 hours away and looked at a nice Silver 2000 S80 with 32k miles, CPO and the sticker price on it is $26.9K. I have found out from the salesmen that both cars from both dealerships are leased turn-ins and were purchased from the VOLVO auctions. They have showed CARFAX, etc. and both cars look really nice. I have offered what I think is a fair price of $18K for the whote 1999 model and $21K for the Silver 2000 model, both dealerships pretty much laughed at my offer, the lowest the dealership will take for the White 1999 is $19.4K and the other dealership will take for the Silver 2000 is $24.9K !!!! I have explained to them that I have looked at several independant dealerships, one of them that does exclusively Volvo's, he buys his cars at the same off lease auctions as the Volvo delaerships, granted his cars are NOT certifed Pre-owned, but he sells them much cheaper !!! He had a 1999 with 47K miles on it and was asking only $16Kobo, I could have bought a aftermarket warranty that was also 72 months/100K miles like the Volvo CPO from either Warranty Gold or GE Capital, same $50 deductible for only $1000. He sold that one the day we went to try and look at the car. Another dealership had a 2000 model with only 42K miles and the dealelrship is asking $19.5K obo for it, we have looked at this one but the color is the not what my mother wants. All of the cars are pretty much optioned the same, sunroof, non turbo, leather, no navigation, etc. I have told both Volvo dealerships this and they can not believe that these other dealerships can sell these cars so low. Finally one of the salesman from one of the Volvo dealerships fessed up and said that his dealership likes to make at least $2500 profit on the used cars they sell. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmileo.gif" BORDER="0"> Well I figure that the independant dealerships cost on the vehicles when they buy it at the off leased auctions and the Volvo dealerships shouild cost them about the same, maybe a few hundred difference at the most, NOT the many thousands I am seeing here. Also I have had experience with the aftermarket warranties from both Warranty Gold and GE Capital on some of my previous cars and have NEVER had problems with them covering a warrantied item. Sorry for the RANT but it just makes me mad that dealerships makes so much on these used cars, I think what I am asking is a fair price, yes they may not make the many thousands they want but at least they will sell the car especially at the end of the year and make their numbers look good. God Bless you all. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Ahhhh Volvo Dealers really make me mad !!!!!(Long) (JDELUNA)

I think if you want a lower price, it would be a better bet to get it from a dealership that doesn't sell new Volvo's and only has a few used ones from trade-ins towards the purchase of a newer car that the dealer specializes in. Like with my mom, we got her a 97 960 w/ 73k for $8500 after everything with a trade of a 91 945 with 184k. If it was a Volvo only or Volvo/Jag/Ford dealer, I know we would have paid a lot more for the same car. The dealerships ask these prices because they can get it. It's a sad truth.
 

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Re: Ahhhh Volvo Dealers really make me mad !!!!!(Long) (JDELUNA)

Just a..."silly" question...what makes you think that making $2,500 on a pre-owned car is <I>"too much"</I>? Do you have any idea what is...too much? Under that philosophy, you should never buy a Saturn, a Honda, a Lexus, a MB, a BMW, an Infiniti, etc. Especially if they are pre-owned. Because I can GUARANTEE you that they make much more than $2,500 on each pre-owned car they sell.<p>Perhaps that is not the right car for you ...<p>Yannis
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Ahhhh Volvo Dealers really make me mad !!!!!(Long) (GrecianVolvo)

Well to me actually any amount over what I have to pay is TOO MUCH, but that is just me and I am cheap, I like to make sure I get the most and best for my money , is that wrong ???? I mean when I go out and buy cars for my friends, self, or family, I research it and try to find a reasonable price that I would be satisfied with and I think the dealer would still make some money, it may not be the many thousands that he is hoping for, it may be a few hundred dollars instead, but at least he is moving the car out faster than letting it sit for weeks or even months hoping that he will make that couple of thousand dollars profit. Are the prices I am asking for unresonable in your opinion ??? I do know that the dealers do have to make some money as it is a business. I do know for a fact that used cars are the real money makers for the dealers as there are only so much profit that one can get or make from a NEW car unless someone is willing to pay the sticker MSRP price which some people actually do. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Too much money?

Making "some" money is relative; what is "some" money? According to you, you would be satisfied to have a Volvo retailer make "a couple of hundred dollars" on a used car...well, let me bring you up to this fact; no retailer can sustain themselves by making a few hundred dollars per car. On top of that, you do expect the retailer to have sales staff that are professional, courteous and do not leave every other month, right? Well, no salesperson who respects him/herself is going to work for pennies. According to your plan, a salesperson would make $20 to $30 commission per car...that "ain't gonna work"...You would also expect professional service when your car comes in for maintenance, right? Again, it is not going to happen under that plan.<p>People, today, expect to buy from a reputable and professional organization and with no hassle. These requirements do not come at cut-throat pricing.<p>Yannis
 

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Re: Too much money? (GrecianVolvo)

I fail to see how a Volvo dealer turning down your offer qualifies them as worthy of your rant.<p>The fact is that Certified cars, anybodys, cost more.<br>It's not just the warranty, it's the work to bring it up to standard.<br>We can easily spend $2-3000 on our CPO cars.<p>Also, these cars don't make it to the auction. Volvo dealers get these cars online and you have to be a Volvo dealer for access to the site.<br>The ones that make it to the physical auctions are the cars the Volvo dealers don't want.<p>You say you do research for your offers, I just plugged your 99 S80 into Edmunds and came up with a certified selling price of $20,016.<p>If you don't see the value of the CPO cars, fine. But don't take it out on the <br>dealers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Too much money? (VolvoMax)

I am not trying to make this post as a FLAME to any dealers, etc. I was just ranting. Last time I checked USA had freedom of speech, or am I wrong here ?? Also what I do by researching and haggling I think it as a ART and like doing it, some people here like to do it too, it gives them control over what they think they can spend, etc. I hate the so called ONE PRICE dealerships, some people like it. As far as dealerships making money, well I know that most dealerships would HATE a person like me trying to make a deal with them and would probably laugh at me in front of my face, that is ok, because I know that eventually by searching hard enough a dealer would take my deal or close to it. A few months ago I negotiated a price at a Toyota dealership for a brand new 2002 Sequioa 4 x 4 fully loaded with everything except heated seats and leather for a price of $36,500 MSRP was $41,000. At the end of the deal the salesperson said that she only made a $100 commision on it, and the dealer made a profit of only $700 from the DEALER-HOLD-BACK. I told them that if they would honor the same price for a friend of mine for the same exact vehicle just different colr then I would make sure he would buy it from them, they said that they would. Well that same month my friend bought his 2002 Toyota Sequioa for the same price, he told his friend who also bought one, I had a dent I needed removed from the new Sequia I bought and the "Dent Dr." asked me where I bought the Sequioa from, I told him the name of the dealership, the salesperson and the price, found out a week later he bought one too. SO basically that month that salesperson made 4 sales and did eventually become salesperson of the month and the year I believe. She also told me that sometimes their dealership will sacrafice profit to make more sales such as the one they have done for us, Also according to her the Sequioa is very easy to sell so they normally do not make these kinds of deals as they did for me and the others, but I guess selling alll those Sequioas made their dealership look good in Toyota's eyes. Also yes I had to drive about an hour away to get this deal but I believe it was well worth it, as no other dealership in my area was willing to sell it at the price I want, the lowest was $38,500. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Too much money? (JDELUNA)

Freedom of speech is fine, but you still can't yell FIRE in a theatre <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Your post sounded like you were blaming a dealer for having the nerve to turn down your offer.<p>Just because you disagree on what a reasonable profit is doesn't make you right and them wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Too much money? (VolvoMax)

Actually you can yell FIRE in a theater if there is one, but if not then suffer the consequence <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> but I am am sorry that it may have sounded that I was blaming the dealer all I wanted to do was rant, but you do have to agree that dealers are in the business to make money so more power to them and if they get a uneducated buyer or one that is willing to pay sticker price then more power to them also, but I also say more power to the buyers like me that is willing to take the time to do the research and to haggle with the price, in the end it probably all evens out. Like I said I am cheap I like to get the most for my money. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Ahhhh Volvo Dealers really make me mad !!!!!(Long) (GrecianVolvo)

thank you Yannis! The real sad thing here is that no one wants an auto dealer to make any profit at all. If you think cars are bad, try furniture, or jewelry. this sad mentality is that people frown upon people who profit and do well for themselves because they think they must have "screwed" people to get there. But we all want profit and success for ourselves, huh? There are dealers out there that will screw you, as any other business type might, but there are also honest hard workers in the industry, too. If people understood the overhead and liability owning a dealership, $2500 is not really a great profit, it's ok, but not great. my $.02
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Too much money? (ices80)

I take it that all of you paid the MSRP or sticker price that was either said by the seller or dealer for the vehicles that you have now, that NONE of you did any haggling or negotiating to get the best price that YOU think was fair ??? If not, more power to the seller or dealer of the car you bought from, if you did more power to you, remember what is a fair price to you may not be the same to me or others. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> If any of you work for a dealer or are able to get sustantial discounts on purchasing vehicles, did you use that ?? If so, is that not trying to get the best deal that you can ??? I think it is, and that is what I am trying to do to, I may not work for a dealer or get dealer discounts but I do try my best. I would rather try my best in trying to get a great deal than not try at all, would you not do the same if given the chance ?? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><br>[Modified by JDELUNA, 5:52 AM 12-27-2002]<BR><BR>
[Modified by JDELUNA, 5:52 AM 12-27-2002]
 

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Re: Too much money? (JDELUNA)

Jdeluna, why are you disappointed the dealer didn't take your offer? It was his choice not to sell you the car just as it was your choice not to buy it for his asking price. You made an offer, he rejected it, so move on. When you make offers like that, some will bite, others won't. It's part of the negotiating game. You play it very well, (as evidenced by your Toyota successes) but you have to realize that sometimes you won't get the deal when you underbid the price. So go find the car from one of the other (non-Volvo) dealers, buy it from them, and get the warranty from a third party vendor.<p>And the dealers are not as rigid as you suspect, when I bought my wife's S80 we got it for about $2000 below sticker. Our salesman wasn't there when we bought the S60, so the deal wasn't as good, so I just bought the car TDS and got an even better discount (plus a free trip to Europe to pick it up.) Took longer to get the car, but we saved even more than the S80. Actually, TDS is a win-win situation--the dealer gets his full price (apparently makes even more than selling it off the lot, according to Yannis.) and the buyer saves about $3500 off the price of the car. The only downside is that it takes 6 months to get the car back here (longer if the ship sinks in transit . . . .)<p>So you have options . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Too much money? (T5 Dave)

No I was not diappointed that the dealer did not accept my first offer, but I knew they would not, I also know that they will call back every few days to give another offer, which they did and I would counter offer. Just to let everyone know that yesterday we offered the salesman $19K for the white 1999 CPO and they took it. My mother is happy with the deal and if she is happy then I am happy <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> , but if you can see in my original post here: <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=6124" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=6124</A> I was considering a starting offer of $20,500 and not going any higher than $21,500. Glad I held out and did more research, I saved a potential $1500-2500. Now is there anything wrong with that ??? Yes I am sure that the dealer made money off the deal because they will not sell it to me and not make a profit, it just may not be as much as they were hoping for. God Bless. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
[Modified by JDELUNA, 6:17 PM 12-27-2002]
 

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Re: Too much money? (JDELUNA)

Perfect! sounds like they came to you and then took the $19k offer, which was just under their original $19.4 k asking price for the white car. Sounds like you merely had to wait them out. Now, if you had put a bid in on an XC90, they wouldn't have come back to you. It all depends on the old "supply and demand" paradigm.<p>Congrats. Enjoy the car. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Too much money? (JDELUNA)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> God Bless. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> <p><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Yes, God Bless the master negotiators and those who hold out!<p>Yannis
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Too much money? (GrecianVolvo)

yeah those new XC90's look nice but I know the limits of negotiating and yes you are right about the supply and demand, the supply right now is very low on those things and the demand is very high, the dealer I went to, can not keep those things in stock, they also told me that they did lose some cars on the cargo ship, 3 of them were XC90's and 1 S80 <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsad.gif" BORDER="0"> , they said that they are checking the manifest again to confirm that they did not lose anymore than the ones they already did. Now maybe in about 2-3 years from now I may be able to negotiate a good price on a used XC90 since there will be more on the road <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> Anyways I want to thank everyone for their support and criticism , I think that constructive criticism is good. Did I mention that the dealer also has a nice RED 1998 S70 T-5 with 80K miles and he is asking $13K for it ??? Maybe I can talk him down to $10K for it <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> Hey anything is possible !!!! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Ahhhh Volvo Dealers really make me mad !!!!!(Long) (JDELUNA)

I hear you with some of the dealership stuff. Went and drove an s70, s60, and s80 this weekend, all at different places. The s70 and s80 were at non volvo dealers and were around $1,500 below book. The s60 was at the official volvo dealer and was at least 1500 over book. Despite that fact I almost walked away with the S60 except for one little fact. They wanted to give me $1,500 for my trade. I can understand not getting the whole $8000 that kelley's had for a trade in value, but $1,500 for a 310 hp sports car that is only 6 years old and in good shape. That is pretty insulting. It is even worse when they say stuff like "we don't go by blue book values." <br>I guess not since their cars were all over the blue book price.<p>What makes it even worse is that if I was stupid enough to take the deal I know they would have put my car on the lot and slapped a $10,000 price tag on it. I understand they need to make a profit, but lets be reasonable.<br>It is fine by me though. I'll just pick up the S80 at the dealer that is $1,500 below book. Seems that they can keep the lights on without ripping off the customers.
 

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When it all comes down to it, we expect the auto industry to be perfectly competitive, with cheap wal-mart prices, but as stated above, not all dealers have same philosophy. I know dealers that will sell more and make a few hundred, and others who sell very few, but make thousands on a $13,000 car! Its great you found a good dealer for your sequia, I would keep going back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Do more search within the Volvo Certified Pre-Owned inventory in the web. I am sure you can get a dealer close to Virginia with a similar Pre-Owned car from Volvo with all the benefits that come by purchasing directly with the dealer.<p>I did this last year and got an excellent 2000 S80 2.9 for a great price. Still you get all the benefits of Certified Pre-Owned by Volvo, including the full check the car undersgoes. I would not change this option for any other extended warranty program.
 
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