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If you mount a system with CAN-BUS there isn't a danger :)
I installed a 5000k kit in my V50, but after 260.000km my reflectors are f*cked up so need new headlights :(
Facelift here I come :D
Hey! Could you explain more about CAN-BUS as a by-pass system? What setup are you currently running for them? In a kit? I'm full of questions.

Thanks! :)
 

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It's a can bus h7 kit of the brand "kinco"
It was the cheapest set I found :D

So if you search on eBay for "can bus xenon h7" I'm sure you'll find a great kit. Just do a little bit research of the brand ;)

I have 5000k but regretting it a bit. Should have picked 6000k
Also the no-brand kit need more time to warm up compared to kits like pilot and Phillips.
Here is a video of a cold start-up
Bare in mind my reflectors are f*cked so I have a weird lightbeam
 

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It's a can bus h7 kit of the brand "kinco"
It was the cheapest set I found :D

So if you search on eBay for "can bus xenon h7" I'm sure you'll find a great kit. Just do a little bit research of the brand ;)

I have 5000k but regretting it a bit. Should have picked 6000k
Also the no-brand kit need more time to warm up compared to kits like pilot and Phillips.
Here is a video of a cold start-up
Bare in mind my reflectors are f*cked so I have a weird lightbeam
Thanks for the details :) I'm going to go and order a set off ebay.
 

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Ok so I've Keats just used kits off of eBay <$30 and so far my biggest problem and only one has been bulbs burning out. Now I'm looking atbthe mirimiyo kit for 150$ and I'm wandering is it really worth the money? Has anyone had any problems with this kit at all?
 

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If you mount a system with CAN-BUS there isn't a danger :)
I installed a 5000k kit in my V50, but after 260.000km my reflectors are f*cked up so need new headlights :(
Facelift here I come :D
My experience (more than 7 years installing HID) tells me that it doesn't matter CANBUS or NOT CANBUS, motor may die sooner or later.
The problem is due to the high voltage cables creating interference with the wiper motor.
Is not a CANBUS problem.
CANBUS problem will only give you a burn out bulb error in the dash, but nothing will broke because of that.

This problem is very common in Audi forums.
You'll find lots of info & solutions over there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #308 ·

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Discussion Starter · #309 ·
My experience (more than 7 years installing HID) tells me that it doesn't matter CANBUS or NOT CANBUS, motor may die sooner or later.
The problem is due to the high voltage cables creating interference with the wiper motor.
Is not a CANBUS problem.
CANBUS problem will only give you a burn out bulb error in the dash, but nothing will broke because of that.

This problem is very common in Audi forums.
You'll find lots of info & solutions over there.
So I have a question. What about the high voltage from the ignition coil packs? These are about twice the voltage (60kv vs 30kv) as the HID ignition, and rather than firing once each time the car turns on they fire 1500-7500 times per minute. They are also located much closer to the WMM than the HID ballasts. But they don't cause WMM failure...
 

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So I have a question. What about the high voltage from the ignition coil packs? These are about twice the voltage (60kv vs 30kv) as the HID ignition, and rather than firing once each time the car turns on they fire 1500-7500 times per minute. They are also located much closer to the WMM than the HID ballasts. But they don't cause WMM failure...
Volvo has tested all the OEM parts they use in every one of their cars for months or even years before releasing this products to market.
They do not sell their cars without previous tests.

But Volvo will not test their cars with chinese aftermarket parts (or HID kits).

That is why an OEM part tested by Volvo will not cause WMM failure & a chinese part (not tested by the car factory) will.
Also different Voltage means different kind of interference.

Don't ask me WHY NOT? I can not give answers to why things do not happen.
I can only give answers to why things do happen.

Like for example... why the WMM failure? Because of the 25.000v. Volvo, Audi, Seat, VW, Peugeot & some american car have WMM Failure
High Voltage currents tend to mess around with electronics.
Audi, Peugeot, Volvo and others do not test this chinese HID kits with 25.000v in their vehicles.
So this is why some electronic parts fail.

It is a well known & well documented problem.

- Audi A3:
http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/223933-hid-kit-help.html

- Peugeot 407
http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/307-38/hid-headlights-25276/
 

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Discussion Starter · #312 ·
Volvo has tested all the OEM parts they use in every one of their cars for months or even years before releasing this products to market.
They do not sell their cars without previous tests.

But Volvo will not test their cars with chinese aftermarket parts (or HID kits).

That is why an OEM part tested by Volvo will not cause WMM failure & a chinese part (not tested by the car factory) will.
Also different Voltage means different kind of interference.

Don't ask me WHY NOT? I can not give answers to why things do not happen.
I can only give answers to why things do happen.
The answer is shielding. The HV leads from the coil packs are completely encased in the head, which is made of aluminum and is grounded. The spark occurs in the cylinder, with all valves closed, which is all metal and thus an excellent faraday cage.

Like for example... why the WMM failure? Because of the 25.000v. Volvo, Audi, Seat, VW, Peugeot & some american car have WMM Failure
High Voltage currents tend to mess around with electronics.
Audi, Peugeot, Volvo and others do not test this chinese HID kits with 25.000v in their vehicles.
So this is why some electronic parts fail.
Your high-voltage theory is not outside the realm of possibility:

The typical aftermarket ballast/bulb has around 40 cm of wire exposed to high voltage. Prior to ignition, the bulb is open circuit (capacitive load) of say 1000pF and post ignition it is a resistive load of about 35ohm.

At a switching frequency of 100kHz at 25kV for ignition (capacitive load = 10kOhm impedance), the ignitor circulate around 2.5A AC. If the HV leads are spaced infinitely apart (closer reduces the effect) and are perfectly straight (looped reduces the effect) and unshielded by the body (which would reduce the effect), we could potentially produce an very brief E-field upwards of 14V/m at a distance of 1m.

As there is more than 1m of CAN wire between the CEM and WMM, there could potentially be upwards of 20v induced on the line which, lacking TVS or effective termination, might cause a CAN controller to fail.

In OE ballasts which use D1S (integrated ignitor) or D2S (ignitor on connector) bulbs, there is no length of wire exposed to HV as the ignitor is physically connected to the bulb. Without a length of wire to radiate, there is no electromagnetic field produced and no chance of inducing a voltage in the CAN wiring.

Ok - I will give you that.

But...

That said, this is not the *only* issue with *this particular vehicle*. You MUST take into account the 80Hz PWM modulation on the headlight line. The Volvo P1 (C30, S40, V50) are the only cars that use this low frequency PWM. This is why the BOW eliminators you send out are failing, and why the kits will not work without them. This PWM will eventually kill EVERY BOW eliminator not specifically designed for it, and when the BOW eliminator fails, it will kill the ballast shortly thereafter.

I have no problem with you advocating kits that reduce the problem of EMI emission, as I said above, there is a chance that it could be the source of the WMM failure in some cases.

I do have a problem with you saying that EMI is the only issue, or that PWM is not an issue, and that standard BOW eliminators are sufficient. You are giving people a false sense of security. I don't mind if you copy my design and sell it as your own. Just make sure that you ship your kits with at least 30mF of capacitance in the eliminator to counteract the PWM.

Thanks :thumb up:

For more information, please see:
- Electrical system overview, Lighting, Headlamps, Halogen (page 21): http://theeshadow.com/files/S40MY2005/S40MY2005-Electrical.pdf
- Original writeup on the problem: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?125561-Headlight-PWM-details
- Independent verification: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...-PWM-details&p=2283884&viewfull=1#post2283884

Note this does not apply to all cars, or even all european cars, or even all Volvo cars. It just applies to P1 Volvo cars (C30, S40, V50), which share the same CEM and thus PWM circuitry.
 

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Your high-voltage theory is not outside the realm of possibility:

The typical aftermarket ballast/bulb has around 40 cm of wire exposed to high voltage. Prior to ignition, the bulb is open circuit (capacitive load) of say 1000pF and post ignition it is a resistive load of about 35ohm.

In OE ballasts which use D1S (integrated ignitor) or D2S (ignitor on connector) bulbs, there is no length of wire exposed to HV as the ignitor is physically connected to the bulb. Without a length of wire to radiate, there is no electromagnetic field produced and no chance of inducing a voltage in the CAN wiring.
Glad to see that finally you embrace the high voltage "theory".
That is what I have been trying to explain here in the forum since 2011.
(deleted most of my previous post, since my information was not very welcome by people who didn't know anything about HID)

Also I must say is not a theory but a REAL FACT.
It's been proveen by myself since 2008 and followed by other people after I posted the info in some english forums.

About shielding...
I have been doing that with HID kits since 2006-2007.
Is how we solved the ABS / ESP problems in the Audi A4 B6. (solved by shielding the high voltage cables in most of the cases).

Here I explained to some Audi A4 owners how to solve the ABS / ESP interference produced by HID.
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/index....-dash-lights-after-fitting-hids.202604/page-3



This ABS / ESP problems getting solved by shielding was the reason I found out the high voltage cables were responsible for the WMM fail.
Tried also shielding HID on the Audi A3 & Peugeot 407 but that didn't work in this cases & WMM died.

Kept working on this theory until finally I solved the problem in 2008.
Never again a saw a broken WMM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #315 ·
You must have missed the

But...

That said, this is not the *only* issue with *this particular vehicle*. You MUST take into account the 80Hz PWM modulation on the headlight line. The Volvo P1 (C30, S40, V50) are the only cars that use this low frequency PWM. This is why the BOW eliminators you send out are failing, and why the kits will not work without them. This PWM will eventually kill EVERY BOW eliminator not specifically designed for it, and when the BOW eliminator fails, it will kill the ballast shortly thereafter.

I have no problem with you advocating kits that reduce the problem of EMI emission, as I said above, there is a chance that it could be the source of the WMM failure in some cases.

I do have a problem with you saying that EMI is the only issue, or that PWM is not an issue, and that standard BOW eliminators are sufficient. You are giving people a false sense of security. I don't mind if you copy my design and sell it as your own. Just make sure that you ship your kits with at least 30mF of capacitance in the eliminator to counteract the PWM.

Thanks :thumb up:

For more information, please see:
- Electrical system overview, Lighting, Headlamps, Halogen (page 21): http://theeshadow.com/files/S40MY2005/S40MY2005-Electrical.pdf
- Original writeup on the problem: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?125561-Headlight-PWM-details
- Independent verification: http://forums.swedespeed.com/showth...-PWM-details&p=2283884&viewfull=1#post2283884

Note this does not apply to all cars, or even all european cars, or even all Volvo cars. It just applies to P1 Volvo cars (C30, S40, V50), which share the same CEM and thus PWM circuitry.
 

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You must have missed the But...
No, didn't miss it.
None of the guys using the parts I recommended had any issue.

For example Jon TDI from Volvo forum in UK.
http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=205492

I can't talk about other products because I didn't test them.
If you are having problems is because you are doing something wrong.

But...

I have no problem with you advocating kits that reduce the problem of EMI emission, as I said above, there is a chance that it could be the source of the WMM failure in some cases.
Of course you have a problem.
You were the reason I deleted all my previous info from this forum.
You wouldn't accept any theory but yours because of your 12 + 15 + 8 years experience in anything related to electronics.
Glad to see that now you agree I could have been right all this time with my EMI / High Voltage interference theory.

Before all you did was attacking me for saying the WMM failure is due to high voltage cables.
NOT IN SOME CASES. IN ALL CASES. I can guarantee.
I solved this in 2008, have been working with this issue for the last 8 years.
Saw you were having problems identifying the cause of the WMM failure in the forum so I joined to let you know the problem was already solved & was caused by High Voltage.

I do have a problem with you saying that EMI is the only issue, or that PWM is not an issue, and that standard BOW eliminators are sufficient. You are giving people a false sense of security. I don't mind if you copy my design and sell it as your own. Just make sure that you ship your kits with at least 30mF of capacitance in the eliminator to counteract the PWM.
Sorry man, but I don't have any interest to copy something that does not work.
Your theory & designs are wrong since day 1.

Woah stop press - I don't know why I wasn't getting email updates on this thread but am I reading this correctly? 2 KBOWE failures???

For the record, mine (installed in 2009) is still fine, but it is a much higher capacitance (50mF, vs 22mF) than the final design because I bought too many capacitors. I don't want to speculate on causes until I can test the degradation of actual units from the field.

Kyle, AJ, if at all possible I need those units back - Will pay shipping etc.. We have to get to the bottom of this ASAP. It's not just SS, there are forums literally all over the world using these instructions (most hits come from Finland, Russia, and Norway actually).

Anyone else that is running a KBOWE, I suggest that you switch back to halogens until there is a definitive solution. You can run halogens without modifying/removing the KBOWE.
You are the one giving false sense of security & blowing away WMM from other users.
Hundreds of HID installed following my advice since 2008 & guess what. 0 Broken WMM

Your cables do not solve the problem as you stated.
I told you many times since 2011 "you are giving the wrong advices & more WMM will fail because of that".
You never listened.
Seems like finally after 3 years you are starting to change your mind & now high voltage / EMI could be the cause...
Only took 3 long years & couple of fried Wiper Motors
 

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blazedani what do think about led kits?

really tempted by led for nice looking white light, adequate night lighting for driving, and they apparently don't have the electric interference issue hids kits do that seem to harm the wiper motors. but, at least earlier led kits, don't seem to have the brightness and throw distance of hids....

should i pay $140-150 for a lifetime warranty for a led kit from lifetimeledlights or a higher quality morimoto hid kit that will hopefully have the adequate shielding to prevent a wiper motor issue and have superior lighting to the leds? i looked into the well-done hid kit that are recommended for the audi/vw guys with the same wiper motor issue but at over $300, it's a bit too pricey for aesthetics ... other kits you would recommend?
 

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Out of interest - I've not excessively read into this entire thread, it looks like there's chunks missing that have been moderated which is fair enough!

I posted a thread back along... (http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?212602-HID-Ballasts-Sorry-for-another-thread!)

This combined with a relay circuit to provide a 55/110w load (power resistor? which just looks exactly the same as a lamp to the CEM?) but flip a relay to turn on the ballasts, thereby removing the need for BOW eliminators - essentially as far as the car is concerned, there's no lamp out, it's driving the correct load so no warnings, the 110w load isn't going to be bothered by the 80Hz PWM from the CEM, if you run a good (separate) supply from the battery, you've got a clean power supply to the ballasts via the relay. If you shield up the HT lines to the HID lamps whilst using OEM ballasts as in my previous post - I can't believe this wouldn't solve the problem?

It's almost better than the original method surely - since the problems are the 80Hz PWM signal and the EMI pulse as the crappy Chinese ballasts ignite.

- The 80Hz PWM signal is solved by the separate battery supply via a relay (shove in a cap just to stop the relay from having issues with the 80Hz signal).
- The EMI issue should be solved by the OEM ballasts - since Volvo wouldn't supply ballasts from the factory that shove out enough EMI to kill the WMM!

Please correct me if I'm getting the wrong stick / barking up the wrong tree?
 

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blazedani what do think about led kits?

really tempted by led for nice looking white light, adequate night lighting for driving, and they apparently don't have the electric interference issue hids kits do that seem to harm the wiper motors. but, at least earlier led kits, don't seem to have the brightness and throw distance of hids....

should i pay $140-150 for a lifetime warranty for a led kit from lifetimeledlights or a higher quality morimoto hid kit that will hopefully have the adequate shielding to prevent a wiper motor issue and have superior lighting to the leds? i looked into the well-done hid kit that are recommended for the audi/vw guys with the same wiper motor issue but at over $300, it's a bit too pricey for aesthetics ... other kits you would recommend?
LED kits are safe to install.
They will not cause WMM failure.
This kits work at 12v an not 25.000v.

LED will give you a pure white color (5000k - 6000k)
BUT they are not usually as bright as HID kits.
LED kits tend to give around 1800 Lumens (even if they are sold as 3000 Lumens)
Halogen bulbs are about 1200 - 1500 Lumen so is not a big difference with the LED kits & way below the 3000 Lumens from the HID.

Besides that, bulbs (halogen or HID) & LED have totally different designs.
So most likely the light cutoff won't be the same with LED fitted in an halogen headlight.
That is my major concern about the LED HID kits.

Morimoto HID kit will cause WMM failure.
They are also chinese, just sold by an american store using a "japanese like" name.
They have high voltage cables so interference most likely will appear even if they shield the cables. (I know they "shield" some of their ballast cables)
I tried myself shielding cables in many situations as I comment before. Audi A4 B6, (works some times to avoid ABS/ESP errors) Audi A3 8P (didn't solve the WMM issue), etc.

The bulbs & ballast I tested & recommend for Audi A3 & Volvo P1 does not cost $300.
The cost of materials depends of the ballast you want to use, like VALEO, Mitsubishi, AL, Hella, etc...
You can install bulbs & ballast for about $160 in total & not $300 as some user wanted you to believe.

Of course you can buy the most expensive HELLA ballast in the market for $400 a piece & your HID kit will become more expensive.
As I have been saying for the last 3 years there is not only 1 solution. You can use different ballast to avoid the WMM problem.

If you consider $160-200 is too expensive & you are looking more for aesthetics than a light output improvement I would recommend you to install a LED Kit.
That will give you the white color of the HID & your WMM will be totally safe.
 
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