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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have an '05 SR,, how painful would it be to update the haldex to provide the '06-'07 precharge on an '05? <p>living in MN, I have too many times had the front wheels slip on ice when the rears had full contact to pavement. i let up on gas but it's too late you feel the power kick in on the rears after a delay and just hear that spline sleeve take a hit. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> and you know it's that much closer to a repair. I know one of these times I'm going to hear the dreaded bang.<p>the pre-charge in theory will help limit this damage as the delay and shock to the sleeve wouldn't occur. ...and perhaps in the long haul save money,,--well thats the rationalle even if it isn't true, if i could pull off the instant traction I'd do it.<p>what would be needed besides a new haldex module? <br>what awd components would you need? <p>I don't fully understand how the pre-charge is activated, what provides the instant power? Is the haldex too integrated with the rest of the car where replacement with a newer module would not work? what challenges need to be overcome?<p>i look forward to your responses. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Ryan<p><br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by atacamaR at 7:12 AM 4-19-2009</i>
 

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Re: after a few beers, a pre-charge AWD idea for my '05SR seems to get better and better. (atacamaR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>atacamaR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>what would be needed besides a new haldex module? <br>what awd components would you need? <p>I don't fully understand how the pre-charge is activated, what provides the instant power? Is the haldex too integrated with the rest of the car where replacement with a newer module would not work? what challenges need to be overcome?<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>To those that answered "it's do-able", would you care to elaborate? I think some good questions are raised here.
 

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Maybe its just me, but I feel like I have read that the pre-charge for the Haldex is based off the linear clutch sensor. In cars with failing clutch sensors the Haldex will act funny.<br>But again I could be completely making this up.
 

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Re: after a few beers, a pre-charge AWD idea for my '05SR seems to get better and better. (I Roll)

I think you need to get with Helmut with the drinks, and think this through.<p>Report back with joint findings and rationalizations please.
 

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Re: after a few beers, a pre-charge AWD idea for my '05SR seems ... (chinaonnitrous1)

Because he lives in Minnesota I think he has every reason to want this.<p>I guess I would just drive as carefully as possible on Vredestein Wintrac Xtremes because it would be expensive to do this
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: (TGO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TGO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">aren't 2005's pre charged as well?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>nope. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Helmut Ranff</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because he lives in Minnesota I think he has every reason to want this.<p>I guess I would just drive as carefully as possible on Vredestein Wintrac Xtremes because it would be expensive to do this</TD></TR></TABLE><p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Yes, it might not make financial sense, but I would like to know what would be needed. If a new haldex unit would be the bulk of the expense, if that ever failed it might make more sense to attempt this.<p>sell an '05 to get '06,,, love my car. would you tell someone who wants the body kit to sell their car to get one with it? that add on isn't cheap either but people add that and thats cosmetic.<p>I was hoping someone knowledgeable on our haldex unit could chime in. '05's and '06's can't be that different. the awd components have to be pretty similar.<p>anyone?<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by atacamaR at 8:58 AM 4-20-2009</i>
 

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Re: (atacamaR)

At least it would be nice to find out what part #s change from 05 to 06 with regards to tranny, angle gear, and software download (if any for the haldex unit). If the haldex unit itself is the only difference you could find a wrecked 06 or 07 R and see how much it would cost to get a used one.<p>
 

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The spline sleeve is spinning whether the rear is engaged or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The spline sleeve is spinning whether the rear is engaged or not.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>so perhaps only a new haldex unit and some sensors...?<p><br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> nice to see where the consensus is on this lol. ahhh good stuff.
 

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Re: (phuz)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>phuz</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The spline sleeve is spinning whether the rear is engaged or not.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>right but if the rears were always engaged like that then how could you keep the car stopped...like if you had a manual sitting at a light getting ready to go or something?<p>anyway, giving the difficulty of dealing with the computer system(s) in this car for various things, i think it would be fairly obvious that this is not as simple as just swapping out some parts. <p>if you're that dead set on it, sell your car and get a newer one.<p>new haldex, supporting parts, etc. plus probably a new ECU...which didn't they change the CAN interface in the newer cars too?
 

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Re: (atacamaR)

Someone with Vida needs to compare part #'s and such and report back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Until we know that info, how can we know the cost of the upgrade, or the factor of retardation, if any, of the OP? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"> Posing the question gets a big <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> from me, as I had never considered what all was different between the 05 and 06, other than 1 was pre-charged. I would do this if it was a g note or less. We get our fair share of snow here too.<p>That is, if we are certain, as a group, that the pre-charging reduces the shock at the angle gear that results when the haldex allows more wheelspin at the front, then slams the clutch closed at the rear diff. I would imagine that this is precisely the result of pre-charging, if it does not allow any wheelspin in slick conditions before the rears lock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: (TGO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TGO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>anyway, giving the difficulty of dealing with the computer system(s) in this car for various things, i think it would be fairly obvious that this is not as simple as just swapping out some parts. <p>if you're that dead set on it, sell your car and get a newer one.<p>new haldex, supporting parts, etc. plus probably a new ECU...which didn't they change the CAN interface in the newer cars too? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>probably right on with messing with the computer systems unless the haldex doesn't get any input from the ecu or atleast anything specific to pre-charge. partly why i started this thread as i don't know how the haldex operates and interested in learning what i can.<p>i'm not dead set on it so it's not worth getting rid of my car which i love. the depreciation hit would make the pursuing haldex more economical maybe <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> plus i'm not giving up my free sirius, bodykit, or atacama. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> Or,, maybe i fear the plastic charge pipe. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>in my case, having no-precharge definately adds wear to my anglegear/sleeve so if i can do anything to prevent it I'll take a look. <p>maybe it is as simple as swapping out haldex and a few other bits but until someone chimes in that understands how the haldex operates or atleast know the part differences we can only speculate. <p>what lead me to post this is reading about haldex failures. if haldex failure can disable the awd why wouldn't only be only something different with the haldex unit and maybe a sensors that trigger it sooner?<p>atleast this post isn't asking about what oil i should run, i'm looking for an R,, or others that we see daily<p>
 

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it's not the haldex that fails, it's the damn spline sleeve...with an occasional pressure or temp sensor going bad.<p>i don't know how the haldex interacts with the ecu, but they're not totally seperate as the ECU stores DEM's and other codes from the haldex.
 

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Re: (TGO)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TGO</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's not the haldex that fails, it's the damn spline sleeve...with an occasional pressure or temp sensor going bad.<p>i don't know how the haldex interacts with the ecu, but they're not totally seperate as the ECU stores DEM's and other codes from the haldex. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>What the OP is saying is that the extra wheel slip he gets in his non-precharged unit is causing extra wear and tear on the spline sleeve (from the rears engaging so abruptly).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: (m3nt0s)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>m3nt0s</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the price involved, I'd say nay. But the idea is great, and if you DID go ahead with it, I'd love to hear how it works out.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'll slowly work on it, but of course will need help as JoeLvo and I Roll point out part #'s from Vida for '05 and '06 will help identify differences. It won't tell everything but it's a place to start.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>I Roll</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What the OP is saying is that the extra wheel slip he gets in his non-precharged unit is causing extra wear and tear on the spline sleeve (from the rears engaging so abruptly).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>right, and in theory shorter intervals between replacement.<p>
 

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Re: (JoeLvo)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JoeLvo</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Someone with Vida needs to compare part #'s and such and report back <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"><p>Until we know that info, how can we know the cost of the upgrade, or the factor of retardation, if any, of the OP? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0"> Posing the question gets a big <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> from me, as I had never considered what all was different between the 05 and 06, other than 1 was pre-charged. I would do this if it was a g note or less. We get our fair share of snow here too.<p>That is, if we are certain, as a group, that the pre-charging reduces the shock at the angle gear that results when the haldex allows more wheelspin at the front, then slams the clutch closed at the rear diff. I would imagine that this is precisely the result of pre-charging, if it does not allow any wheelspin in slick conditions before the rears lock.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>There was no change to the collar, bevel gear, driveshaft or rear diff. Only the AOC is different, I'm not 100% clear on whether the electrical connections would mate or not. Software is a whole other problem.
 

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Basically the pre charged system is somehting of a misleading name. Basically the system has a fluid pump. Rrather than using the pressure generated by the wet plate clutch spinning to actuate the clutch pack, the pre charged system can activate the clutch pack with the electric pump, it will not provide ~70ftlbs to the wheels, it provides ~70ftlbs to the wet clutch pack meaning it can provide almost an instant full engagement of the AOC whenever it feels like it. In an 06+ car if you floor the car from a standstill it will engage the AOC as much as possible and you don't get that hint of wheel slip like you can in an 04
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: (adykes)

thanks for the info adykes, starting to understand it more. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>a pic of the AOC can be found here if anyone else is interested in seeing it. <A HREF="http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=90369" TARGET="_blank">http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=90369</A>
 
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