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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm using the Palmer Performance software to log any DTC's and related engine data. They are (slowly) working on some enhanced diagnostics that would include boost and other data elements but, as of now, I am stiuck with the basic data field set. <p>I need some AFR data and am wondering if any of you using the software has had any luck writing a script or developing yourown pid for getting AFR information. Thanks
 

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Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (Johnr352)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johnr352</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm using the Palmer Performance software to log any DTC's and related engine data. They are (slowly) working on some enhanced diagnostics that would include boost and other data elements but, as of now, I am stiuck with the basic data field set. <p>I need some AFR data and am wondering if any of you using the software has had any luck writing a script or developing yourown pid for getting AFR information. Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Boot (SAE.MAP) would be nice <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I was trying to provide them with a P2 ECU and bench harness for their R&D but my plans fell through for various reasons <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0"> If you (or anyone) can get a working Volvo P2 ECU from a Turbo Volvo and a bench harness it would help move things along at Palmer for PCM Scan and enhanced Volvo support.<p>So why do you need a script for AFR? What build of PCMScan are you using. In buld 1091 generic PIDs for the wibeband O2 sensor are supported and available (working no prob with MY06 S60R and PCMSCAN).<p>Re-validate your PIDs and under O2 select these:<p>SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT, and<br>SAE.EQ_RAT<br>or SAE.WO2S11_B.O2SC (this one is in mA)<p>ps. IIRC latest version is doing something very odd with SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT (might be a bug), more on this after some testing...<p>LTA<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (LTA)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LTA</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>So why do you need a script for AFR? What build of PCMScan are you using. In buld 1091 generic PIDs for the wibeband O2 sensor are supported and available (working no prob with MY06 S60R and PCMSCAN).<p>Re-validate your PIDs and under O2 select these:<p>SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT, and<br>SAE.EQ_RAT<br>or SAE.WO2S11_B.O2SC (this one is in mA)<p>ps. IIRC latest version is doing something very odd with SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT (might be a bug), more on this after some testing...<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks, I see and am getting the data from SAE.WO2S11_B.O2SC but not the others. I also get data on SAE.02S12.02SV in voltage. I can try to revalidate so the others come up. I'm using their latest version. <p>I need AFR as RICA is trying to help me interpret some problems I'm having with my tune. Truth is, I'm not sure what to do with the data I'm getting. So, then I guess my question is, if I get the SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT, and<br>SAE.EQ_RAT to show up, and plot it vs. RPM and Load, what do I do with them to convert to an AFR? Thanks
 

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Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (Johnr352)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johnr352</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Thanks, I see and am getting the data from SAE.WO2S11_B.O2SC but not the others. I also get data on SAE.02S12.02SV in voltage. I can try to revalidate so the others come up. I'm using their latest version. <p>I need AFR as RICA is trying to help me interpret some problems I'm having with my tune. Truth is, I'm not sure what to do with the data I'm getting. So, then I guess my question is, if I get the SAE.W02S11._B.EQ_RAT, and<br>SAE.EQ_RAT to show up, and plot it vs. RPM and Load, what do I do with them to convert to an AFR? Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I sent you on a bit of a wild goose chase for those pids, sorry. Some pid names changed a few versions ago, so here's what to look for as of build 1194:<p>SAE.WO2S11_B.LAMBDA, this one is actual measured Lambda from the front WB O2 sensor.<p>SAE.LAMBDA, this one is the commanded lambda (it' what the ECU is trying to acheive).<br>(I think buil 1194 has a bug in this pid because since upgrading I'm getting grazy-big numbers ranging from 22000-34000 but still plots out like it should, I think it's being multiplied for some reason, I'll contact PCM Scan support...)<p>I'm no AFR expert so have a read here and then get the RICA guys to tell you what to log and what to look for:<br><A HREF="http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/air-fuel-ratios.shtml" TARGET="_blank">http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/air-fuel-ratios.shtml</A><p>From my general knowlege of AFR: The data that you'll get from those two pids will range from around 0.7 (rich, under high torque demand and heavy load) to 1.0 (while costing, idling, etc) and above up to 2 (lean). Those two pids will usually track eachother except that off-throttle SAE.Lambda will jump higher (up to 2.0).<br>When you let off the throttle and stay in gear (engine breaking) the ECU should be sending zero fuel but in my experience SAE.WO2S11_B.LAMBDA never really hits 2.<p>LTA<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (LTA)

This is very helpful. And I was able to get SAE.WO2S11_B.LAMBDA, and then multiply it by 14.7 (I think that's right) for my AFR. <br>I see ranges from .715 under high torque settings to 2 when off throttle. RICA has said, very preliminarily, that I look a little rich but are sending my data to the Netherlands for a closer look. If it is true and I am a little rich then it could be my tune or something else. <p>So rich means either too much fuel or not enough air I suppose. And so, if it isn't the tune then the question is what might be limiting my air flow? MAF, Filter come to mind. Anything else you can think of that I might investigate?<p>I do also get crazy numbers for SAE.LAMBDA, not sure how to convert those. <p>BTW, thanks very much. <br> <br>
 

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Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (Johnr352)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Johnr352</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is very helpful. And I was able to get SAE.WO2S11_B.LAMBDA, and then multiply it by 14.7 (I think that's right) for my AFR. <br>I see ranges from .715 under high torque settings to 2 when off throttle. RICA has said, very preliminarily, that I look a little rich but are sending my data to the Netherlands for a closer look. If it is true and I am a little rich then it could be my tune or something else. <p>So rich means either too much fuel or not enough air I suppose. And so, if it isn't the tune then the question is what might be limiting my air flow? MAF, Filter come to mind. Anything else you can think of that I might investigate?<p>I do also get crazy numbers for SAE.LAMBDA, not sure how to convert those. <p>BTW, thanks very much. <br> <br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Don't pay attention to SAE.LAMBDA for now because PCMScan build 1194 definately has a bug in that PID. I've posted this problem in the PCM Scan forums, hope we see a fix soon (I'm 'ATL' over there).<p>Your numbers of 0.7 to 2.0 look reasonable (mine are always similar, and I was incorrect earlier when I said I don't see 2.0 because I certainly do). Under high load and high torque request it is expected to go rich because the extra fuel is used to keep in-cylinder temps cool to keep detonation down (ie the unburned fuel absorbs heat as it is vapuorized and helps avoid knock and ignition retard).<p>Even with the BSR tune, which most believe is the most lean tune (and why most say it's not compatible with a 3" DP), from my tests with Zigger's R (RIP) the BSR tune goes rich under heavy load (I have those #'s somewhere if you're interested).<p>I know you say RICA thinks you're running rich but what symptoms are you feeling with the RICA tune?<p>LTA<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (LTA)

A couple of issues:<p>I used to see 19-20 psi boost with my Stage 1 tune. When I moved to Stage 2 and my 3" DP from IPD I started to see only 15-16 psi until redline, then I would see 18-19 psi. I discovered the CAT failed and put the stock DP back in. Boost came back immediately to 19 or so, but the car hardly had time to acclimate before IPD replaced the DP with a new one. I installed the new DP and had great power and boost to about 20-21. But after a week and a few hundred miles I could only get to 16-17 psi max. Thinking I had another bad DP (and that something is wrong with the IPD pipe) I swapped for my stock pipe again. Boost came back with the stock DP, sort of, to about 17-18, for a bit and it seems that it is better (higher w more power) when I reset the ecu or reflash RICA. Then, as the ecu acclimates, boost re-adjusts downward. <p>I have/ had (in the last 750 miles) replaced the TCV, MAF, Plugs, Boost pressure sensor. So, the only remaining thoughts were that it is the tune itself, running too rich and fouling the cat, or mabe the fuel rail pressure sensor, as I'm running out of related parts to swap. I suppose it could be the turbo itself (CBV, or leaky wastegate) except the boost seems better when I flash the ecu. Thoughts?
 

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Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (Johnr352)

Johnr352:<p>Re your symptoms: I've never been down that path and you have a 'few' more mods than me so I don't think I can offer much. How are you reading boost? Are you reading it off a guage real-time or you logging it somehow? I don't have a boost guage but have already figured it wouldn't be too easy to accurately watch a small guage while pounding through the gears and looking out for smokies.<p>The IPD guys are good so aren't they helping you as well or are you working directly with RICA?<p>Re PCM Scan: Brian P has responded in E-mail about the problem with SAE.Lambda and said it'll be fixed in the next release. If I can just get him a P2 ECU and bench harness he might just be able to make some quicker headway with Volvo enhanced support (and then we can log boost along with all the other PID's). If we can help him get there I'm sure we'd be in a good position to negotiate a deal for SS members.<p>LTA<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (LTA)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>LTA</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Johnr352:<p>Re your symptoms: I've never been down that path and you have a 'few' more mods than me so I don't think I can offer much. How are you reading boost? Are you reading it off a guage real-time or you logging it somehow? I don't have a boost guage but have already figured it wouldn't be too easy to accurately watch a small guage while pounding through the gears and looking out for smokies.<p>The IPD guys are good so aren't they helping you as well or are you working directly with RICA?<p>Re PCM Scan: Brian P has responded in E-mail about the problem with SAE.Lambda and said it'll be fixed in the next release. If I can just get him a P2 ECU and bench harness he might just be able to make some quicker headway with Volvo enhanced support (and then we can log boost along with all the other PID's). If we can help him get there I'm sure we'd be in a good position to negotiate a deal for SS members.<p>LTA<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I read boost with a gauge and it isn't too hard to read. I wish I had it through logging though. IPD (LuckY) has been VERY helpful but we are all struggling a bit based on the data I can capture and the fact that it is RICA's tune. I am working with RICA and they are now asking I have a dyno. I'll do this tomorrow in fact, as they want to see boost, afr, timing, HP and torque in a controlled run. So we are still trying to identify whether I have a tune or hardware problem. <p>Not sure how to get Brian an ECU but gosh I would be willing to contribute to the cause. I'm open to ideas, can we get an ecu from a dead car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: AFR Data and Palmer Performance (LTA)

Some of the data from a run with the PalmerPerformance software. I notice the 44 in Ignition timing... looks weird.<p><IMG SRC="http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp246/JohnR352photo/data2.jpg" BORDER="0">
 
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