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<A HREF="http://www.leftlanenews.com/geely-to-offer-2-billion-for-volvo-chinese-regulators-question-hummer-deal.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.leftlanenews.com/ge....html</A><p>Left Lane News cites the Wall Street Journal as the source of its article (refered to in the article as "the report"). WSJ is subsciption only so I did not bother to link.<p><I>China’s Geely Holding Group is expected to finalize a $2 billion offer this week to purchase Volvo from Ford, according to a new report. <p>The Volvo deal stems from a January 2007 discussion between Don Leclair, then Ford’s chief financial officer, and Geely chariman Li Shufu. A year later, Geely got serious about buying Volvo, but Ford decided it would try to restructure the company first. It wasn’t until early this year that Ford and Geely began to seriously discuss a sale. <p>Geely’s $2 billion offer will likely make it the top bidder for Volvo. A decision on the proposed sale could come in the next several weeks, according to the Wall Street Journal.<p><B>Mr. Li’s plan for Volvo, according to the report, is to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China</B>.</I><p>I sure hope Mulally does not go through with this. 2 billion would not add that much to Ford's bottom line even if the offer was 100% cash because IIRC, much of the Volvo assets were already mortgaged to raise the cash that is currently sustaining Ford. <p>If if goes through, bye, bye Volvo. I enjoyed your cars. Maybe in 20 years a chineses Volvo will be a safe, solid car, but not in the near term.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (BarentsBlueV50)

Buh Bye Volvo. So sad. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (MagoonR)

Bye-bye Volvo, Hello Audi. If this doesn't kill re-sale values, I will be amazed. The worst possible solution. Even Gassy won't be able to put a positive spin on this.<p>Don't get me wrong. My iPhone is made in China and I know they can make good stuff. But a business plan to cut r&d and production costs by shifting Volvo to China is a long way from manufacturing stuff in China designed in Cupertino.<p>Oh well, my VR probably doesn't have that much value to lose. Its been nice.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (Sausca)

WOW! I was raised on Volvos, have had nothing but Volvos and have sold them for the past ten years. I've seen ups and downs, ins and outs, but THIS? I'm not sure the brand can survive.<p>The only gleam of hope is that Volvo Corporation still owns the rights to the name. I sincerely don't see them letting the name go to a Chinese company who has the potential to destroy the brand image. If Volvo Cars is sold without the name, there's nothing left. All I have is hope at this point.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (Sausca)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sausca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bye-bye Volvo, Hello Audi. If this doesn't kill re-sale values, I will be amazed. The worst possible solution. Even Gassy won't be able to put a positive spin on this.<p>Don't get me wrong. My iPhone is made in China and I know they can make good stuff. But a business plan to cut r&d and production costs by shifting Volvo to China is a long way from manufacturing stuff in China designed in Cupertino.<p>Oh well, my VR probably doesn't have that much value to lose. Its been nice.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I'll try...<p>The reason why you can enjoy your iPhone without taking a second mortgage is exactly that - "lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China".<p>Although I know that my efforts are futile. The core of the problem for you (the Cninese Volvo objectors) is not rational but emotional, and no rational discussion can trump the fear...<p>There was enough fears voiced over the Ford's ownership, that have never materialized, as everyone now agrees that the latest shared development Ford/Volvo Volvo is the most reliable (over the last 30 year period) Volvo.<p>I KNOW enough about the degree of diligence and super-strong desire to conquer the world, genuinly exsibited by Chinese firms that I and my friends dealt with to be confident, that if Geely will set the goal of becoming major player in premium auto market - they'll do it faster and with much more success than Ford/Volvo or Volvo alone for this matter...<p>Do not underestimate the Chinese tiger...it will bite your head off...<p>Would I personally buy Chinese owned Volvo? Yes. On my first purchase I would not probably know, who's the owner, because the one I would buy would still be built in Torslanda (just like I did not know about the Ford's ownership back in 1999). And by the second one - I would not care, as Volvo would still be a Volvo, just a couple of K less expensive.<p>
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (gascos80)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sausca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If this doesn't kill re-sale values, I will be amazed.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Should help the resale value for the last of the Swedish/Belgian products.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Sausca</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The worst possible solution. Even Gassy won't be able to put a positive spin on this.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Oh but he will try.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The reason why you can enjoy your iPhone without taking a second mortgage is exactly that - "lower product development and manufacturing costs available in China".</TD></TR></TABLE><p>And how often until those phones become obselete? Most trade in within two years. Big difference with an automobile......both from a saftey and reliability standpoint.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Although I know that my efforts are futile. The core of the problem for you (the Cninese Volvo objectors) is not rational but emotional, and no rational discussion can trump the fear...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Vehicle purchases are primarily an emotional decision. As a SS member (Volvo salesman) pointed out, doesn't matter what you ascribe it to if the customer won't come in the showroom.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I KNOW enough about the degree of diligence and super-strong desire to conquer the world, genuinly exsibited by Chinese firms that I and my friends dealt with to be confident, that if Geely will set the goal of becoming major player in premium auto market - they'll do it faster and with much more success than Ford/Volvo or Volvo alone for this matter...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am guessing those friends weren't in the Chinese toy or food business.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would I personally buy Chinese owned Volvo? Yes. On my first purchase I would not probably know, who's the owner, because the one I would buy would still be built in Torslanda (just like I did not know about the Ford's ownership back in 1999). And by the second one - I would not care, as Volvo would still be a Volvo, just a couple of K less expensive.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hey Geely...........gassy will see you soon. The rest of us.........not likely.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Hey Geely...........gassy will see you soon. The rest of us.........not likely.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Geely buys Volvo, I cancel my XC60 order and will thank God the XC90 lease is almost up.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (njb8199)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>njb8199</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cancel my XC60 order and will thank God the XC90 lease is almost up. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hmmm.......thought that the Disco was the last car for awhile. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Besides, the XC60 order will be fine since it won't be built in China.......yet.
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (MagoonR)

I am not as good as the rest of you on those complicated Quotes, but (1) when the Chinese buy Volvo, all existing Volvos will become orphans, and the re-sale values will decrease because of that; (2) the Chinese, and Geely in particular, have demonstrated NO design or r&d skills, Gassy its not like an iPhone designed in California and then manufactured in China to take advantage of low costs (i.e.wages). Geely is talking about doing the development work in China (3) can you really imagine the folks in Scottsdale buying a "premium" automobile backed by Geely. Not bloody likely. If this comes to pass, its all over. Gasser, do you know what has happened to MG under Chinese ownership?
 

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Re: A new Geely thread with actual news from reputable source (MagoonR)

Call me crazy guys (I've been called that before, so if you want to feel free I won't be offended), but I'm starting to think that Ford isn't going to part with Volvo so easily. Now that Volvo has seen an increase in sales it's become more valuable. I really don't see them getting low balled into selling. That and I really believe that the Swedish government will not sit idly by and watch as Geely or whom ever ship jobs to China. <p>Then again, I could be wrong. As far as owning another Volvo in the future. I don't like the idea of owning a Chinese made car. Especially not after the crash test footage I've seen. I can't help but think that the brand will be invariably cheapened to a large degree. If my only choice in the future is to get a Chinese made Volvo, I'm going to have to look else where.
 

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let's be a bit rational here.<p>The chinese market is the biggest in the world now.<p>volvo's will be built in china for the chinese and local markets.....<p>There is no talk of closing Torslanda etc or moving volvo from Sweden.<p>Geely respects volvo's engineering (more so than Ford ever did) and cannot move R&D lock stock and barrel to China. They just can't engineer volvos. They admit this themselves and respect volvo's practices.<p>Read the info from Geely, volvo will remain a seperate brand ie product development, R&D in Sweden etc.<p>Torslanda, Ghent, Uddevalla and a US factory supply other markets.<p>At china rate of economic growth it wont be long till the "cheaper in china" stops being true.<p>They might be highly industrialised but the cheaper costs wont last forever.....
 

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Re: (Shimon)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Shimon</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">At china rate of economic growth it wont be long till the "cheaper in china" stops being true.<p>They might be highly industrialised but the cheaper costs wont last forever.....</TD></TR></TABLE><p>True. As long as China has four times as many people as the US, it will be cheaper in China--until US labor wages are driven down to the level of their offshore competitors. Assuming of course, that the US chooses to have an auto industry... This is going to be true for any country that chooses to compete head on with China. Hmm, let's warm up those protective tariffs...<p>"They just can't engineer Volvo's" NOW, that is. China has accountants, too, and they will push to do research, design, development and manufacture where ultimately it is most cost effective. <p>In the long term, I don't see China putting itself in a position where it is <i>uncontrollably</i> beholden to offshore suppliers as is the US is now. China's priority is to control its masses; it needs jobs, especially the low end ones. It will manipulate exchange rates and its money supply to create jobs in China and keep them off the streets.<p>
 

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Ford was also looking to save costs but never shipped volvo R&D to Dearborn.....<p>volvo also likes to save costs and does its own reviews internally. <p>Geely plan to keep volvo as a seperate brand so I dont see everything simply being done in china. Geely know their limits and respect volvo's engineering.<p>There was the worry Ford would shut volvo's R&D in Sweden and just do everything in Cologne, Dunton and USA. But, that also didnt happen!
 

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Geely or for that matter any other Chinese auto manufacturer should build a car that surpass European and North American standards all on their own.<p>The Chinese need to build a car from the drawing board up showing the world that it is a total Chinese product. Piggy backing onto an offshore company isn't the answer.<p>Go ahead hire the best minds, build wind tunnels, crash test prototypes AND develop a racing program so that they can stand on their own feet, independent of foreign intervention.<p>Until this is done Chinese credibility with our beloved cars will always be in question.<br><BR><BR>
<i>Modified by stev vanveit at 1:16 PM 7-21-2009</i>
 

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Re: (Shimon)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Shimon</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ford was also looking to save costs but never shipped volvo R&D to Dearborn.....<p>volvo also likes to save costs and does its own reviews internally. <p>Geely plan to keep volvo as a seperate brand so I dont see everything simply being done in china. Geely know their limits and respect volvo's engineering.<p>There was the worry Ford would shut volvo's R&D in Sweden and just do everything in Cologne, Dunton and USA. But, that also didnt happen!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Shimon,<br>You have some sympathetic ears here, but not that many ...fear is the strongest human emotion, the most basic one, it drives animalistic survival instinct as we all know...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: (gascos80)

Gascos, your argument seeks to discredit people who are against the purchase of Volvo by the Chinese. But the facts and peoples comments contradict you.<p>Fact is, as of 2009, Chinese made cars are dangerous lumps of steel. IIRC, a Geely model spectacularly failed the euro NCAP test.<p>Neither myself, nor the other posters, disputed that China will eventually produce world class cars. <p>I don't know if you were here in the late 60's or still in Russia. Buying a made in China car today, is like buying one of the early Hondas from the 60's. What car would you like to be in when it crashes: a 1967 Honda N360 or a 1967 Volvo 122?<p>Shimon, your post is wishful thinking contradicted by the quote of Geely's Mr. Li: "to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower <B>product development </B>and manufacturing costs available in China."<p>If the sale goes through and if Geely follows its plan to relocate product development and manufacturing to China, then Geely's learning curve to build a world class car will be significantly shortened, but it will be at the expense of the Volvo brand.
 

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Re: (BarentsBlueV50)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BarentsBlueV50</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Gascos, your argument seeks to discredit people who are against the purchase of Volvo by the Chinese. But the facts and peoples comments contradict you.<p>Fact is, as of 2009, Chinese made cars are dangerous lumps of steel. IIRC, a Geely model spectacularly failed the euro NCAP test.<p>Neither myself, nor the other posters, disputed that China will eventually produce world class cars. <p>I don't know if you were here in the late 60's or still in Russia. Buying a made in China car today, is like buying one of the early Hondas from the 60's. What car would you like to be in when it crashes: a 1967 Honda N360 or a 1967 Volvo 122?<p>Shimon, your post is wishful thinking contradicted by the quote of Geely's Mr. Li: "to slash the brand’s costs by taking advantage of lower <B>product development </B>and manufacturing costs available in China."<p>If the sale goes through and if Geely follows its plan to relocate product development and manufacturing to China, then Geely's learning curve to build a world class car will be significantly shortened, but it will be at the expense of the Volvo brand.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I beg a forgivness if you feel discredited...but we DO NOT have rational discussion, nor I see any facts even pointing toward the reasonable discussion. Yes, there is a lot of opinions that contradict mine, but they are not anywhere near the factual plane, and all based on a fear - that is my opinion.<p>Shimon and I base our opinions on the FACT that people at large are not stupid and are not suicidal. Thus, it is in the best Geele's interest MAINTAINING the safety standards of Volvo and using the already-developed technologies and production facilities, rather than replacing them for no reason with their own.<br>Does it sound reasonable to you? Then, why are we so paranoid?<br>Can you give me the FACTS,so I can raise the level of my concern? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: (gascos80)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Shimon and I base our opinions on the FACT that people at large are not stupid and are not suicidal. Thus, it is in the best Geele's interest MAINTAINING the safety standards of Volvo and using the already-developed technologies and production facilities, rather than replacing them for no reason with their own.<br>Does it sound reasonable to you? Then, why are we so paranoid?<br>Can you give me the FACTS,so I can raise the level of my concern? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Since you said it would be in Geely's best interest to maintain Volvo's safety standards, it sounds to me that you agree with me that as of 2009 Geely makes unsafe cars. So I disagree with your opinion on what that fact means. Once Geely buys Volvo, you seem to think that overnight, Geely will start making safe cars. I disagree. However, I never said Geely will always make unsafe cars.<p>Like I said above, the purchase of Volvo will speed up Geely's learing curve to make a world class cars tremendously. Yet somehow that makes me paranoid??? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (BarentsBlueV50)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>BarentsBlueV50</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>Since you said it would be in Geely's best interest to maintain Volvo's safety standards, it sounds to me that you agree with me that as of 2009 Geely makes unsafe cars. So I disagree with your opinion on what that fact means. Once Geely buys Volvo, you seem to think that overnight, Geely will start making safe cars. I disagree. However, I never said Geely will always make unsafe cars.<p>Like I said above, the purchase of Volvo will speed up Geely's learing curve to make a world class cars tremendously. Yet somehow that makes me paranoid??? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p><br>Wow, wow,<p>Let's slow down and <B>think</B> reasonably...<p>You totally misunderstand my points...so, let's go through the points you make and quote in little baby steps...<p>1. Yes, Geele of 2009 makes relatively unsafe cars. It means just that - the current generation of Geele cars is unsafe. What other means you can apply? So where is our disagreement?<br>2. I do not think that Geele will be able producing Volvo safety level cars using ITS own technology any time soon. No disagreement here either.<br>3. HOWEVER, Chinese companies already manufacture Volvo today, same car, with the same specs, safety and other features, on Chinese plants, using Chinese parts and Chinese labor. I cannot see ANY reasons why Geele will not be able to do the same right after the aquisition. Enlighten me, please. Do you really think that Geele's management and workers any worse than Chang'an Ford? So, that takes care of Asian market for me...<br>4. AT THE SAME TIME, why do you think that Geele's management is so stupid as to close Torslanda and other European production and development facilities overnight? Can you give me ANY REASONS? Thus, I believe that for some time, European and USA market will be covered from the same production facilities as today? What's a problem with that?<p>All and all, I see NO downside from the reasonable person stand point...sorry...<p>While I was typing, the appropriate precedent from my Soviet past came to my mind.<p>USSR bought all rights to Fiat 124 back in 1969 (8? 7?). Soviet auto industry then was in much worse shape than the Chinese today. Did the Soviet production make 124 any worse? Nope...Quite opposite, it prolonged the life of that model for DECADES. With the Soviet pitch it was manufactured and sold all over the world till 90th.<br>Did the 124 give Soviet technology a boost - you bet...The derivatives of that model are manufactured and sold in Russia as we are speaking, successfully competing in the lower-end automarket with all other offerings, including Korea and China.<p>Lastly, You, personally, might not be paranoid, but read through the thread, and you'll see where I am coming from..<p>"We'll not even look at Volvo, if it would have Chinese ownership, regardless of where and how that car is produced..." sounds VERY paranoid to me... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>
 
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