A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle

Re: A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle (MrTippy)

Thanks Mr. Tippy,

I think I read all these posts (done my due dilligence) last night probably three hours of reading, hence the near midnight posting time....even one between you and madeinjapan. I have read up on 3309, and felt the consensus was if it meets 3309 specifically (universals excluded), listed high friction and boldly called out Dextron incompatibility, it looked like a fit. The specs between mobil and castrol are really similar. I went back and added the specs link for Mobil, compare yourself, let me know what you think.

I think I found a fit. And one that is very easily sourceable. I am searching for the same thing everyone else is, so please do not take this the as anything other than an honest request for education. One of your replies agrees with my assumptions http://forums.swedespeed.com/z...17720- #7 post in this thread

Is there anything in your google 3309 search that can argue against the Castrol product?

Modified by Q-Ship at 5:52 AM 6-21-2009

Re: A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle (Q-Ship)

This is a hot button topic on the forum, almost as hot as what oil or what gas to use.

Fact of the matter is that JWS3309 spec ATF is backward compatible with a lot of older formulations, but the converse is not true. The primary difference is the addition of a more robust stabilizer package for longer life, a high friction modifier and a viscosity adjustment.

Castrol/BP knows full well what JWS 3309 is and probably just decided not to pay Aisin Warner for the privilege of putting "approved" on their label. If the product were unsuitable, they would not open themselves up to the liability of replacing all the 5 & 6-speed AW transmissions that are out there.

Mobil makes all the JWS 3309 ATF sold in NA, i.e. Motorcraft, Volvo, Toyota, etc. If the ATF is imported that may be another story.

You will not kill your tranny with Castrol's Foreign car universal ATF, however if the premium is only a couple bucks a quart more, I would go with the Mobil 3309; what are we talking $15-20 on a flush--if you can't afford that, dare I say you shouldn't be driving a Volvo. If you like, you could flush out the old stuff with Castrol and finish up with the Mobil 3309.

For the record, most here have used the Mobil 3309; certainly the most vocal.

Re: A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle (MrTippy)

Tippy,

Ok, Understandable,

While it is a $20 difference, it is still $20. If there is some quantifiable difference in the Mobil/Castrol then it is worth paying the extra $. If they are in fact interchageable, then spending $20 too much is pretty dumb. Sure $20 wouldn't break any banks, but it still is $20.

I'm just looking for any reason, other than some voo doo magic fear of anything non mobil.

Anyway, I think my $20 will be better spent on light bulbs

Re: A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle (Q-Ship)

If one drives about 15,000 miles/yr and averages 24 mpg and could save around $0.03/gallon on average that would be about $20. Now consider that your ATF is going to last 50-60,000 miles, about 4 years. That's $5/year increased maintenance cost in any given year.

Castrol Import M-V ATF
[email protected] 40°C, cSt ASTM D-445 36.6
[email protected] 100°C, cSt ASTM D-445 8.0
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 200
Brookfield [email protected] -40 C, max,cP ASTM D-2983 13,000
Pour Point, °F (°C) ASTM D-97 -54 (-48)
Flash Point, COC, min °F (°C) ASTM D-92 406 (208)
Specific Gravity, 60°F ASTM D-1298 0.850

MOBIL ATF 3309
Viscosity
cSt @ 40ºC 35
cSt @ 100ºC 7.2
cP @ -40ºC (-40ºF) 14,000
Viscosity Index 180
Flash Point, ºC ›185
Pour Point, ºC ‹ -45
Density 0.8540

This is from the respective datasheets. I am going to assume that each one's additive package is sufficient to meet the jws 3309 lifetime stability spec--however, if swedespeeders are changing it out at much less than 80-100k miles, this may be irrelevant.

What I can see is that the Castrol product is higher viscosity ("thicker") at higher temps (operating temps) and thinner at lower temps than the Mobil product. The differences are not large, but significant, and may just reflect the nature of the basestock & additive package to produce the respective ATF. The Mobil product will flow a little more at normal operating temps and the Castrol will flow more at low T. The Castrol product has a higher VI which means that its viscosity changes less with temperature, but they are both in the same realm.

Will products perform the same? No, not measurably so (as above), however, they could both be functional equivalents, i.e. both fit for purpose.

Assuming that Exxon/Mobil and BP/Castrol are two of the largest fuel & lube companies on the planet who get to hire pretty much any chemist or engineer that they want, I think that either product would be ok--and remember that Volvo uses Castrol lubes as its oe motor oil fill and recommends that we do the same.

I've met some Castol lube scientists, yes it was 15 years ago, and I would have to say that none of them were the kind of people that would knowingly sign off on a product that they knew was not to spec. We like to make a lot of ATF, motor oil, and fuel around here, but truth be told, I don't think we are talking about real step changes in technology with these products.

All that said, for $15-20 over 4 years, it's still a crap shoot.

And to further muddy the waters, it could be that Mobil 3309 meets all the same specs that the Castrol product does, but Mobil decided to call it 3309 instead of Multi-Vehicle--just to avoid the kind of debate that we are having here! Like many things today, the difference isn't science, but marketing!

Boiling it all down--maybe I should have said this first--you should not harm your tranny with the Castrol product, if it doesn't shift right (e.g. shudders) just change it out asap and live on.

No voodoo magic here.

Re: Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle IS NOT A A JWS 3309 oil @Autozone-just checked (tc)

Thanks tc,
Still ordering it, or having to drive an hour to pick it up is more hassle if a chain supplies an equivalient.
I've been running the Castrol for two weeks, and absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. I'll keep everyone posted on any issues that come up.

Anyone who want's to shout "the poor transmission, won't anyone think of the poor transmission" keep your comments constructive. We all know Mobil is the standard, Type IV is the equivalent, Amisol is not really the right one to use, Mobil 1 has been reformutated to include 3309, Mercon/Dextron will not work, to look for 3309 on the bottle, any other unknown fluid is suspect and Kristin Shephard shot J.R.

Wow, I sound like such a Richard...seriously though lets not rehash "knowns"- and Sorry if I spoiled the Dallas finale for you.

Modified by Q-Ship at 12:28 PM 7-10-2009

Re: Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle IS NOT A A JWS 3309 oil @Autozone-just checked (Q-Ship)

If you really wanted to compare at an atomic level, you could send a new sample of each fluid to a lab and ask for an FTIR scan. Furthermore, you could take a look at the metallic additive package by asking for ICP or RTD testing.

From the data sheet information posted above, there is no real difference...not enough to make any type of judgement call. One cannot call to fluids compatible or even comparable based on viscosity data alone. The Castrol product may have a higher viscosity than the Mobil product at both 40 and 100c, and as already mentioned, the higher VI will allow it to be more stable over a wider temperature range...but the additives and how they function over these temps will be key.

Looking forward to seeing the "real world" test results.

Re: A JWS 3309 at AutoZone?- Castrol / 1 qt. Import Multi-Vehicle (Q-Ship)


NO IT'S NOT
Go to your local TOYOTA dealer and buy what you need, (TOYOTA TYPE IV) I don't think they charge more than $4.50-$5.00 a bottle
SAME STUFF, MOBIL 3309