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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
running along just fine albeit a bit noisey....the noise was on the overrun and I had originally thought is was an axle bearing or ring/pinion problem..... drained the fluid and no significant metal hedge hogs on the magnet.... although it did have hypoid in it....but..... looking at the manual<p>I see this one calls for 0.8 quart ATF instead<p>put some ATF in it<p>tranny very quiet and no more 'driveline" noise<p>it wants to go into first gear but just won't <p>with the car rolling slowly.... you can feel and hear it try but the lever simply won't go.... so I'm thinking it's not a syncro ring....... the throw to second and the other gears is fine and unchanged..... <p>this is the 79 4 speed without overdrive<p>did it just all the sudden bend a shifter fork?<p>wad up a blocker?<p>has some dammit gimmick loosened inside I need to simply tighten?<p>thanks if you can tell me what this is as I'd like to have any parts required on hand before I pluck it and open it and I'd be happy to learn it can be cured externally<p>I like this wagon..... it will haul some parts for sure.<p>also..... will the same tranny with the overdrive just bolt right in it's place and will the 5 speed do the same as well? I think this one is a model 45....<p>puzzling and wondering if anyone else had had this problem with one of these transmissions<p>I recall having similar types of problems with some Getrag units that only needed to run a different type fluid to seemjingly cure themselves..... seems some liked Redline.... some liked ATF..... some liked Hypoid.... not really any rhyme to the reason as they were all the same basic tranny<p>Recall some service bulletins on 528's discussing this
 

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Re: 4 Speed Manual Suddenly Refuses To Go Into First (username)

Welcome to Swedespeed.<p>Has the trans worked perfectly at one time?<p>Did you make any adjustments to the car just prior to the first-gear problem?<p>Have you adjusted the clutch cable recently?<p>Have you replaced the shift linkage pivots and adjusted the linkage?<p>have you been hearing throw-out and/or pilot bearing noises while shifting?<p>With the car parked, shut down, the trans in neutral and the clutch untouched will the lever go easily into first gear?<p>George Dill<p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: 4 Speed Manual Suddenly Refuses To Go Into First (gdill2)

Thank you!<p>1)I recently obtained this car and the trans has worked flawlessly other than the noise I was thinking was rear end.... it was not it seemed to be due to the wrong juice in the box..... I was driving down the road in top gear.... no pop.... no boom.... no grinding..... just came to a stop and found myself glad this thing will take off in second without scroching the clutch<p>good question<p>2)no adjustments period<p>good question<p>3)no clutch adjustments either..... clutch works like it should<p>good question<p>4)replaced nothing other than the fluid after this problem reared it's ugly head<p>good question<p>5)no pilot bearing or throw out bearing noises although I'd tend to think a pilot or mainshaft input bearing would first show a problem with top gear<p>still.... a good question<p>6)the lever will not go into the first gear position under any of the following circumstances<p>a) as you ask and describe in your last good question<br>b)same conditions as "a" but clutch pedal depressed<br>c)with car rolling and engine off and as in "a" and "b"<br>d)engine running and otherwise as "a" "b" and "c" and also paying close enough attention to sycronize the engine to wheel speed so as to eliminate the possibility of only the syncro ring being a problem<p>Thanks for the intelligent exchange thus far<p>I am a certified master tech with several many years expeirence.... I've overhauled many manuals from Rockcrushers to those very difficult Getrags found in 24 valve M6's<p>Just never done one of these and was hoping I wasn't the first person to ever have a similar problem. I do not have a manual on this gearbox as the manual I have simply glosses over the tranny and also states something like 'best left to a profession'<p>I have a very well equipped shop and can even make special tools if needed but I'm thinking I should have anything to scatter and reassemble this box..... just not sure if it's cost effective since I can rustle one out of a local junker pretty cheap..... but if it were to be something external and short of an inexplicably and suddenly self bending fork... or blocker that just silently fell apart.... that would be a different story<p>just hate to pull and fix this one since it really deserves a five speed or overdrive unit<p>thanks again and your reply is quite refreshing.... I hope you'll find mine the same
 

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Could be bent shifter fork, if the tranny has never been opened, most likely a syncro. Remember, Bronze/Brass is non ferris (sp?) so that metal will not stick to a magnet <p>The Haynes manual has a good brake down of the M45 trans. It will help you fix it. <p>This happened to me with the 3rd and 4th gear. <p>You can get a tranny with an over drive in it at the jy that will most likely be in good shape for around 125 bucks. All you need is the switch and the forward drive shaft and that's it. ( the fwd drive shaft is shorter ) <p>I was going to install a 5 speed M47 trans in my 242GT before it was totaled. That is also an option.<p><br><IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/embeer.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Just to let you know, if you do this endevour, remember to disconnect the drive shaft and the tranny support to lower the engine to get to the top two bolts on the bell house. Also use a few extentions and a uni socket to take the bolts out. These bolts are 9/16 if I remember right. Same as the nutz on the starter.
 

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Re: (DVolvoguy777)

For pics of what may be ahead click around on<p><A HREF="http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/99/a0/0900823d801d99a0.jsp" TARGET="_blank">http://www.autozone.com/servle...0.jsp</A><p>George Dill<br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: 4 Speed Manual Suddenly Refuses To Go Into First (username)

there is a killer jy around here and transmissions are less than 60 bucks.... you pull it..... called them and they have about 60 or so Volvos<p>what do I need to put the five speed in it?<p>I'g going to crunch the ratio numbers and see which I prefer although I'd be open to opinions.<p>I would also like to know if there is a brainless way to cipher what ratio the diffrential supposedly is standard on that wagon..... and perhaps if any taller ones are available on what specific models<p>This wagon will really zoom right along..... easily cruises 100 mph although not much more before the engine starts sounding a bit urgent<p>I've had it up and over 120..... really shocked me <p>Very respectable fuel mileage..... 23 mpg even doing the extended high speed romp..... sensational economy at 75 cruising..... over 30 mpg<p>getting the front end tightened up and properly pointed help out largely in this area<p>thanks for the help
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I went over to the shop and I have Haynes 97020 (270) version? of their manual for this vehicle..... the only thing it has on the standard or even automatic gearboxes would be info on R&I and general procedures for external ancillaries as well as clutch procedures...... is there another version that shows the internal breakdown?<p>Also..... although I own many universal adapters and sockets..... that doesn't change the fact I do not like to use them if not absolutely necessary.....will an Impact Wobble socket or adapter do the bellhousing deed? Standard they are 16 degrees.... I have a couple modified to do 24 degrees although I do not subject them to impact.<p>Thanks again
 

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The 5 speed will bolt right in. You need to get the forward drive shaft though. It isnt the same as the m45 or m45/w od. <p>I know this cause my auto tranny on my 81 wagon was fitted with the 5 speed. Just didnt have the drive shaft so it got a rebuilt auto.<p>Your wobbley sockets will work as long as you drop the rear tranny mount and lower the transmition to access those top bolts. I have busted my nuckles many times removing those bolts.<p>Also try to find the old 240 Haynes manual. It has a green cover and has the information you need. ( try chilton as well ) The best manual is the Bently manual. You can get them at IPD. Maybe FCP Groton.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: 4 Speed Manual Suddenly Refuses To Go Into First (username)

thanks for the link to the OH manual.... I'll have to agree on the blocker in the syncro assembly..... I'm doubting it's a fork
 

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ferrous is the spelling.<p>I hope you get this matter solved, as for the haynes manual, well that will tell you just about diddly squat. for a REAL manual go to <A HREF="http://www.ipdusa.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ipdusa.com</A> and get a Bentley manual. its jam packed with goodies and what not about 240s.
 

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Re: (Camyman)

I skimmed this thread, but...<p>-1st gear on these boxes sucks. I double clutch into 1st if I'm doing about 10-20. Otherwise mine will usually drop in if I hold it.<p>-guide plate under the shift boot can be adjusted.<p>-redline mtl is good stuff and will work with the overdrive. Type F ATF should be fine though.<p>-M47 from '87+ 240 won't solve your problems. It's a decent box...I have 2. Find the newest one you can. I have a '90 240 w/M47, and it feels GREAT compared to the one in my '87 (with 232k, 100k of that was me ragging on it hard). <p>-get the full M47 driveshaft. It's balanced together. In addition to being longer on the front half, they also use a rubber joint at the trans instead of a solid u-joint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"-M47 from '87+ 240 won't solve your problems. It's a decent box...I have 2. Find the newest one you can. I have a '90 240 w/M47, and it feels GREAT compared to the one in my '87 (with 232k, 100k of that was me ragging on it hard)."<p>need some edification for this statment please.....<p><br>my rig is a wagon....... if I get the whole driveshaft....... does it have to come out of a wagon or will one for a sedan work? If not, will the front half of the driveshaft out of a M47'd sedan work?<p>Seems like I'm going to need a ground wrench to separate that shaft at the carrier..... do I recall that correctly? It's hard to recall why many of those ugly ground up wrenches were done that way while others made sure their reason would never be forgotten.<p>Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
and what is the latest year vehicle I can snatch one out of that will work in my 79 245?<p>Also...... I looked intently at the plate under the boot...... didn't see anything restraining it from moving into the first gear position but I'll look again.
 

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I just swapped transmissions. My M47 went bad and I replaced it with another one. I do have a few tips which may repeat previous ones.<p>1) You do need to drop the back of the transmission in order to reach the top bolts. Even then they are not fun. <p>2) A 1/2" drive will fit up there. I needed the bigger wrench to break them loose.<p>3) You will need the universal adapter (the one that swivels). You cannot have too many extensions.<p>4) Go ahead and replace all attaching parts while you have it out. They are relatively inexpensive and you don't want to take it out a year later. This includes clutch, pressure plate, throw out and pilot bearings, rear main seal, cable, fork, mount, shifter bushings, back up light switch. Make sure you buy good quality parts.<p>5) Have a 6 MM allen socket available in case your pressure plate is attached with them.<p>6) Once my transmission was completely unbolted, it still didn't want to budge. Volvo made sure it wasn't going anywhere. It needed a little "encouragement". <p>7) It can be done in a weekend if you are prepared. I needed help getting the transmission up and down but <br>you may be able to do it yourself.<p>8) Don't forget to get the flywheel resurfaced.<p>9) Be safe with the proper jacks and jackstands. Have your manuals handy. Get a new can of PB Blaster.<p>10) If you have any more questions, just ask as I did it only 3 weeks ago.<p>
 

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Re: (username)

1. Sedan or wagon doesn't matter, just so long as they're all 4cyl cars that you're dealing with ('76-'93).<p>2. Front half only will work. The full driveshaft is already marked to the proper orientation to which it was balanced. That's why i suggest a full DS, or just have yours balanced (if it vibrates, or if you don't want to drop it, move it one spline, and drive again).<p>3. -'85 240s used a mechanical cable driven speedo off the trans. The M47 was '87+ in the 240, and by that time they had swapped to the electronic speed driven off a tone ring in the rear axle, with a sensor on the diff cover ('86-'93 got this for 240s). You're on your own for a speedo...I haven't had to cross that bridge, being that I have M47 cars already.<p>4. Overfill the M47 with Synthetic Type F ATF (or Redline MTL).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: 4 Speed Manual Suddenly Refuses To Go Into First (username)

UPDATE....... I've put about 100 miles on the wagon, got used to not using first..<p>I guess it likes the ATF as it just slid into first gear...... just as it just suddenly refused <p>however....... the syncro brass isn't doing it's job as I must snyc it myself to get it into gear if the car isn't stationary<p>guess one of those blockers got sticky or didn't like the sulphur<p>think I'll flush it and jockey about various fluids a spell<p>might try some type F and then redline.... redline isn't available without me driving to the next town<p>this reminds me of a great deal I got on a 90K 528e because second syncro was inop<p>did the fluid jockey a time or two and it worked perfectly right up until I sold it with 296K on the odometer<p>it liked dexron after rejecting redline, bmw's 15 buck a quart juice, type f, and hypoid
 

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Just an other thought Username, there is a part called the shifter dog that goes on the shifter fork. It too is made of brass. It looks like a "T". That could be missing or broke. Just looking down through the shifter cover will not let you know that it is broken. I did forget about those. There should be four of them in the transmition as there are two shifter forks. ( if I remember right )
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: (DVolvoguy777)

thanks but I cannot phathom that anything is actually broken since it is working and only requiring doing the syncro's job for it...... and only when the vehicle is moving<p>best I can ascertain is that the syncro ring proper isn't just quite able to do it's job....... yet<p>thank you though....... I believe whomever put hypoid in it and then ran it for who knows how many miles...... should learn to read <p>probably a country wrench somewhere that knows all transmissions should run heavy gear oil <I></I>
 

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Re: (username)

Just noticed this thread. I used to rebuild my transmissions when racing, and also rebuilt my '84 240 Turbo overdrive trans when the dealer broke a synchro (don't ask).<p>I had a similar problem once or twice, and it was when I rebuilt the shifting ring, with the wire synchro rings on the inside, with the feet or "blockers" that are used to center the shift ring. You can see it on the Autozone site under the M40/M41 transmission rebuild, but the parts are the same on the later transmission. <p>The problem occurred when one of these "feet" didn't center properly, and it would actually tip when the shifter was moved, and it would completely stop the transmission from going into gear. Happened after I rebuilt a transmission, and I finally had to take it back apart. Seems I might have put the wire synchro rings in wrong, allowing the foot to ride the wrong way.<p>I actually took the transmission partway apart and watched what it did when I slid the shifter ring back and forth. I could see the foot, and instead of simply being pressed down evenly when the shifter ring was moved, the foot actually tipped on one end, and in doing so, completely stopped the transmission from engaging that gear. <p>If this is your problem, mine went away for a while, then came back, and I finally rebuilt it again. I think the reason was that I simply had one of the wire synchro rings in wrong, and it let the foot move the wrong way. Bingo, no use of that gear. Funny part was that I could engage the other gear by moving the shifter ring the other direction. Weird.<br>
 
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