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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have to first say thanks to LOTR in New Zealand for the idea on fixing my squeaking noise. I’ve been struggling to eliminate the squeaking noise and racket up front every since installing the EVOLVE sway bars. I’ve spent a total of 900.00 in labor at a few Volvo dealers with no results. I’ve even swapped out the bushings for new ones and re-greased the bars several times. LORT recommend using iPD’s 25mm bushings on EVOLVE’s 26mm bar. After taking to Scott, we determined that the bar would be about 25 mm after the powder coating was scrapped off. Cloaked got involved and recommended Zen Volvo to install the bushings and to track down the squeaking noise.<p>I had the car over at Zen’s for the last 2 days. It’s a miracle…90 percent is gone. I’ll get to the 10 percent in a few. The iPD bushings are thicker than the EVOLVE bushings. I also noticed that the grooves that hold the grease in the EVOLVE bushing go against the bar.<p>The 2 bushings next to each other<br><IMG SRC="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/631/bushings1smallfs1.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The inside of the EVOLVE bushings<br><IMG SRC="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4689/evolvebushingsmallof2.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>The inside of the iPD’s bushings<br><IMG SRC="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7638/ipdbushingcp7.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>You can also notice that there is a deeper groove for holding more grease. Zen installed the new bushings and took it for a test spin. They still notice some small noise coming out of the front right…which alerted them to inspect the strut tower. They found what every Volvo dealer has missed…..a broken tool left in the top of the tower and a bolt that is cracked. The cracked head might be due to when they over torque the bolt and broke the tool. I don’t even know if this falls under a warrantee issue…<p><IMG SRC="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5899/towersmallkk4.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>I’m not totally sure about which dealer it came from. Sway bar noise started coming from the front of the car about a week after installation. The last dealer to handle the strut tower was Power out of Irvine. They charged me about 300.00 to disassemble the entire tower, inspect, and put back to gather. <p>I’m thinking about going after Power. 300.00 for the work on that tower…they either didn’t do the work and ripped me off or they did do the work and broke the tool off in the tower and cracking the bolt. Zen thinks the whole strut is damage if the top of it is showing damage.<p>I like to hear from the dealers and anyone else for suggestions please, before I head down there on Friday.<p><br>
 

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Tough call since more than one dealer could have done this... it seems likely to be power since they removed/reinstalled but who knows? I'd raise hell anyway with them as I bet it is them but that's just me.
 

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Re: (nikhsub1)

<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> Here is one of your problems it's called self preservation, if in fact a power mechanic did break a tool on your strut he would have known it if the torquing damaged their tool. The mechanic didn't say or do anything about it then, he sure won't say that he caused the damage now, not to mention that it's been a while since you were there, Therefore raising hell will just give you a headache and maybe a police escort out. I would call power and ask for the service manager then connect him (three way calling) with Louis at Zen. Be professional like you are then if all else falls take them to small claims court. Remember you took the car in with the problem so its going to be hard to prove that they damaged your strut :however; you could get a judgement for the service that they didn't perform because there is an issue of whether they checked it which you did pay for. Lastly if you make too much of a stink they could void your warranty <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 4 months of noise...90 percent fixed...need one more suggestion (KillerB)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KillerB</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><IMG SRC="http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5899/towersmallkk4.jpg" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>That's a perfect example of what happens when you don't use the right tool for the job. With strut towers, there are two ways to R&R: with air tools, or by hand. If you're going to do it with air tools, you should use impact Torx sockets. This guy used a regular old T socket with an impact gun on the nut. <p>Anyways . . . I doubt that shearing off a Torx socket and breaking the nut will damage the strut itself. I'd be more likley to suspect an over-torqued upper strut mount bushing (which could <i>easily</i> be the cause of your noise, and could also easily break if over-torqued). The reason for this is that is when you tigten that nut, it is essentially sandwhiching the upper strut mount bushing in between the upper part of the strut itself and the strut mount. You would strip the threads off the strut before you'd be able to do any further damage to it. So that is my opinion of what's actually wrong, and what is causing your remaining 10% of noise.<p>Now you've still got the repair issue. The problem you're going to run into is extracting the torx bit from the inside of the upper strut. I can give you some pointers later on as to how to go about doing that, but the end result will likely be that the "mounting" portion of the strut will be damaged; thusly, the entire strut will need to be replaced (not because there's anything functionally wrong with the strut, but because the dealer damaged the serviceable end of the strut). <p>Now for the blame game. Obviously if Power was the last one to touch it (and they charged you money for doing so), then they are the ones who are responsible. Here's my reasoning: if they DIDN'T do it, then they would have brought it to your attention . . . because that would have caused them a lot of trouble to R&R, and they would have had to have charged you more labor. So, since they were the last to touch it, and they didn't bring that to your attention, then they were the ones who did it. And don't let them try to tell you "Oh, well you've got springs/sways on the car, so someone else must have done it." If they try that, call BS on them right then and there. To install springs/sways, you don't even need to touch that portion of the strut. All you do is uncrew those three smaller nuts, and the whole assembly comes out. Anyways, just so you know, ALL Volvo dealerships are required to have a 1 year warranty on their labor . . . furthermore, this technically falls under warranty anyways (trust me, upper strut mount bushings fail ALL THE TIME). <p>Now for how to go about getting what you want. There's a saying here in the South "You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." In other words, you are WAY more likely to get what you want if you're nice about it. I would strongly discourage you from 3-way calling the service manager with yourself and the guys from Zen. That's a great way to put the service manager on the defensive and piss him off. What you want to do is present the situation in such a way that the service manager is forced to come up with the idea on his own that the strut needs replacement at their expense. <p>I would suggest calling first and ask to set up an appointment to meet with the service manager to discuss the quality of a repair performed at his shop. When you meet with the service manager, be polite (remember, he/she is the person who can make this REALLY easy for you, or REALLY difficult). Explain the noise problem you've been having and for how long (don't mention the sway bars though). Show him the receipt where you paid them for the R&R of your strut. Explain to him that since the noise is a warranty-related issue, they are the only ones you allowed to perform work on that strut. Tell him that when you hear the noise, it comes from the vicinity of the strut. And then show him the strut. Then let him talk from there. If you don't get want you want from him, politely ask to speak with the general manager. If you don't get what you want from him, then call Volvo Customer Care. Believe it or not, VCC exerts a heck of a lot more pressure on the dealer than you'd think.
 

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Re: 4 months of noise...90 percent fixed...need one more suggestion (R Salesman)

As a precaution, whenever you have the struts apart it is a good idea to replace the upper seats. They only run $30-40 and you already have it apart anyway.<p>When I did my springs @ 30k I replaced mine and they were showing signs of wear and fatigue. Just my $.02.
 

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Re: 4 months of noise...90 percent fixed...need one more suggestion (R Salesman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>R Salesman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br> call BS on them right then and there. <br>Now for how to go about getting what you want. There's a saying here in the South "You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." In other words, you are WAY more likely to get what you want if you're nice about it. I would strongly discourage you from 3-way calling the service manager with yourself and the guys from Zen. That's a great way to put the service manager on the defensive and piss him off. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I think calling BS is going to piss off the service manager and since Louis is a former service advisor for Volvo, he will be able to relate to the service manager more so than the owner, after all "Zen's" mechanics discovered the problem. You could setup the appointment with the service manager and ask the service manager to speak with Louis, all the service manager can say is Ok or no that won't be necessary. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"> <BR><BR>
<i>Modified by cloaked at 10:39 AM 8-10-2006</i>
 

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Re: 4 months of noise...90 percent fixed...need one more suggestion (R Salesman)

From the picture, it is not clear, at least to me, that there is a broken bit of Torx tool in the recess. <p>I am not known to come to the defense of dealers, and it is clear that the nut is indeed cracked, but I am not so sure about the "broken tool". Take a look at the end of the shaft of your other shock and I suspect it will look the same. Our friends at Monroe do not machine the Torx T-50 recess with a broaching tool as you might suspect, but it appears they use some form of metal displacement. That leaves that six petal "flower" at the bottom, looking much like a broken piece of T-50 Torx.<p>I certainly do not doubt anything from the folks at Zen, they have a stellar reputation, and they only do service so for them to survive they have to get it right. I am just not sure your case is so compelling in regard to evidence of a broken tool.<p>You also have the consternation of taking it back to the dealer that botched it in the first place, always a concern I have, especially if there is any evidence of a cover up. You never know where this behavior model is coming from and at what level. <p>Best of luck, be fair, but firm in your position, don't argue if not resolved but just escalate as required, and notify them that you will be doing so to prevent any surprises.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>stevectsai</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MAN...., waht happen to your finger ?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Double jointed<p><br>Alright it's at the dealer that did the install. Paper trail shows I brought it back a week after install complaing of creaking. I decided fter investigation at EVOLVE's offices and a 10 point inspection at Power Volvo...which did bring up a bad strut...to bring it back to the original dealer that did do the install.<p>Supposedly that peice belongs in there...as insane as it looks and Zen's recommendation. They showed me the other strut tower and offered to take me around the lot. It does look like a broken off torque bit. The new concern that I brought to their attention is that the side of the bolt is split due to over torquing.<p>The service manager is already bringing up the fact that I have aftermarket springs, but I don't think they are the cause the damage to the bolt or shock. He did expidited it to the shop superviser and factory tech....which worries me alot. He's also playing the..." I'm taking to the factory rep, Frank, and I told him I like to help you out...if we can. Your car is like a running advertisement for Volvo...and it looks like very nice. So, we'll run in today a see what we find." Doesn't sound to good to me. I did get the 15k service for 300.00. That's a service packed with labor cost. I figured I throw that in and maybe the service manager would lean in my direction if the repair part is small, but I have a fealing it's the whole strut. You can hear the noise when you rock the car up and down. The noise comes out of the whole shock...or sounds like it.<p>I haven't seen any failures with any one eles's struts and I heard the noise shortly after the install...so I'm pretty sure it's a fault install deal. These guys are the same ones that broke the 4C sensor while installing the springs...so I'm real worried.
 

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i've had EVOLVE springs on my car for over a year and no creaks or anything...no leaks...car handles great.<p>it's not the springs doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re:

It's been determined that the strut is bent. The dealer says it's because of the springs and that someone esle has tampered with it since their install, but I brought it back to the dealer a week after the install.<p>....so they dennied the claim.<p>I'm on the phone with Volvo North America....she doesn't seem like much help, but she's going to call over to the service manager. <p>The dealer has to warrentee their work for one year.<p>I know it's a shammy install...look how many people have that spring or another aftermarket spring with no problems. I'm so close to solving this dang issue. The dealer wants 1200 to fix it.
 

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Re: Re: (KillerB)

Just curious but how the heck can you bend a strut? Also, aren't these the same guys that did the springs install? I know Volvo sent out a note saying that it's up to the discretion of the dealer if they want to install aftermarket stuff. So since your dealer agreed to it, they should be responsible for their workmanship. Struts don't bend after one week!<br>FRT went through this as well and bit the bullet. I think he went through Power Irvine as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Re: (mike_c70)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mike_c70</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just curious but how the heck can you bend a strut? Also, aren't these the same guys that did the springs install? <p>FRT went through this as well and bit the bullet. I think he went through Power Irvine as well.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I have no idea how you bend a strut...they said new bushings have been installed since they have install the springs. That's news to me. I wish new bushings were already installed right about now. It's 5pm now and no word from Volvo of N.A. and the dealer is calling me to come get the car. A few dealers in the area along with Zen are saying to leave it there to expedite the response from Corporate.<p>It's the same dealer that did the springs. It was Sangera Volvo out of Bakersfield.<p><A HREF="http://www.sangera.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.sangera.com</A>/<p>I chose them because they were agreeable to the job and my family lives in that town, so there was transportation while they worked on it for 4 1/2 days. Unfortunately it's a right wing slow pace town with no 'R's in it, so the mechanics are oblivious to the workings of the car. <p>I'll bit the bullet too if not resolve by wednesday. I'll have it done at Zen for the 3rd of the price going to Power or Sangera....and they'll know what they are doing. *Side Note* Zen Volvo said if I was on my extend warentee, that they would do the job for me for no charge...because it's a bad strut. Plain and simple. Only if I could live with it for another 40,000 miles. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Re: (KillerB)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>KillerB</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*Side Note* Zen Volvo said if I was on my extend warentee, that they would do the job for me for no charge...because it's a bad strut. Plain and simple. Only if I could live with it for another 40,000 miles. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Holy smokes! Looks like I know where to go for my extended warranty. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: Re: (mike_c70)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>mike_c70</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Holy smokes! Looks like I know where to go for my extended warranty. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthup.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>Yeah no kidding. I begged Zen to do regular warranty work but they can't <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> Isn't it amazing how much better Zen is than almost any other dealer? Go figure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Re: (nikhsub1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>nikhsub1</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>Yeah no kidding. I begged Zen to do regular warranty work but they can't <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vortexmediagroup.com/images/banghead.gif" BORDER="0"> Isn't it amazing how much better Zen is than almost any other dealer? Go figure.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's because their garage is full with techs from Demark and Sweden that moved to L.A....and a Manager that use to be a service adviser at Risnik Volvo in Pasadena. Their like the equivalent of the European Volvo dealers and know what they are doing.<br>
 

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Re: Re: (KillerB)

Assuming you have them do the work you may want to have them note on your receipt the fact that they are denying your warranty claim of a bent strut shaft due to the fact that you have modified springs. That will make their position clear if you pursue it further up the chain. <p>When, and if, you encounter someone at Volvo that understands modern suspensions, Not the SA who thinks 4C is an air suspension!) I am sure they will reverse their position. <p>Clearly if the springs were the cause of the bending, there would be many cases of bent struts. Also if you jammed that hard enough to bend the shaft, there would be serious deformation of the strut tower on that side. Just because the Evolve springs give a lower static ride height, does not mean they allow more travel in a dynamic situation, they are a progressively wound spring. Also I suspect there are snubbers that come into play before the shock bottoms to full compression.<p>Since you are paying for it, I would also ask to have the old "bent" shock. <p>Good luck!
 

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Re: 4 months of noise...90 percent fixed...need one more suggestion (stevectsai)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>stevectsai</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">MAN...., waht happen to your finger ?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>ROFLMAO!!!
 
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