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Discussion Starter #1
I'm able to look up any vehicle structure that was manufactured in the past 20 years.

The XC90 has more Boron metal in it then any other structure to date.

Boron is the strongest metal in the auto industry. It's stronger then ultra high strength steel.
Most high end vehicles have a combination of high strength and ultra high strength. There is no Boron in them, like the XC90.

The XC90 floor pan and majority of the rear floor are Boron. This platform makes a very strong foundation.

The Roof inner supports,B pillar inner structure 3rd layer , are made out of Boron.

The front inner structure,doors, 2nd layer of metal at the roof,b pillar,c pillar and 1/4 panel are high strength steel.

Boron is so hard, the cutters and metal blades dull out in a short period of time.

A plasma cutter is is cutting tool most commonly used.

The 2012 XC60 doesn't have what the XC90 does.

So for those of us who have choosen the XC90, and it's 10 year old desigh, it is the best thing out there todate, in my opinion.


VFLXC90
 

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I'm able to look up any vehicle structure that was manufactured in the past 20 years.

The XC90 has more Boron metal in it then any other structure to date.

Boron is the strongest metal in the auto industry. It's stronger then ultra high strength steel.
Most high end vehicles have a combination of high strength and ultra high strength. There is no Boron in them, like the XC90.

The XC90 floor pan and majority of the rear floor are Boron. This platform makes a very strong foundation.

The Roof inner supports,B pillar inner structure 3rd layer , are made out of Boron.

The front inner structure,doors, 2nd layer of metal at the roof,b pillar,c pillar and 1/4 panel are high strength steel.

Boron is so hard, the cutters and metal blades dull out in a short period of time.

A plasma cutter is is cutting tool most commonly used.

The 2012 XC60 doesn't have what the XC90 does.

So for those of us who have choosen the XC90, and it's 10 year old desigh, it is the best thing out there todate, in my opinion.


VFLXC90
Not sure if you saw in the national news where 7 people were killed in a Honda Pilot went it ran off a bridge and landed in a Zoo ( I think in NY) It made me think of the XC90 and how it would have survived. From the pictures on TV it looked as if the doors came off, not sure if they were taken off by the "Jaws of life" or just came off but from what the news inferred it was the result of the wreck not the rescue effort.
 

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I saw the Honda Pilot story and was thinking the same thing about how the XC90 might have held-up in that situation. Hard to tell from the pics, but it looked like the Honda roof held up pretty well and I assume the doors were removed by rescue. So even if the XC90 held up better, do the passangers survive the jolt of a 50 foot fall?
 

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We drove the new XC60 and then a XC90 and the 60 had wonderful steering response, had a bit stiffer suspension and I suspect it would be a good handling car, however, we drove it first and then drove the XC90 immediately thereafter. I made up my own mind but I stayed quiet while I waited for my wife to comment first, since it was going to be her choice. I was suprised that she had the very same sensation and response I did, the XC90 was the better choice for us. The seats were MUCH nicer, the XC90 was devoid ot the newish metal trim which will hopefully disappear once the 60 establishes itself in other ways and no longer needs the bright metal to attract buyers and look like a Lexus, the ride was nicer and of course it has more room and better vision by virtue of being a bit higher in the air. I think it is seriously the safest thing I could put the love of my life into and I never worry about seeing her leave alone on a road trip to visit her family. The 90 and the 60 were essentially "the same price" at the dealership I visited. I think the 90 is a heck of a refined value, while the price of the 60 is jacked up as high as they think they can get away with due to the fact that it is new. However, having said that, I would love to be driving one, I just think the 10-year old XC90 design is brilliant and we chose our second one now, having loved the first one so much.

best,

P
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I've been directly involved with 30,000 damaged vehicles over the past 25 years, not including the countless ones that were in the area during my inspection.

It's my choice, the XC90.

My discussions with parents about what type of vehicle they are going to buy for there 16 yr old is, usally the inexpensive one.As they stated, they will probably get into an accident anyway.

It's my mission to try to explain, that's not the right choice, for the ones we love, when most of the time we give them everything we can. To put them into an inexpensive unsafe vehicle isn't the proper thing to do.

I will be purchasing a second XC90 in 3 yrs, when my daughter turns 16.
 

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How much Boron is in the Volvo XC90 ?

VFLXC90,

Thanks so much for your insights. I've been searching high and low for the Boron information you described, and really only was able to find it in your post !

I have a few related questions and a few comments. As an introduction, please have a look at the following 2 videos that highlight the SIPS seat rails/tubules and crash box that I believe are present in the xc90 and some other recent volvo models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlEZSa9NOmQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA09vM7Zufs

It seems that volvo designed the XC60 without these horizontal rails in the seats and with no such internal crash box. The video shows what I am talking about. You can also see that the XC90 DID have this feature in the other video. Why did they give up on such a seemingly smart system ? I reached out to Volvo and they dodged the question altogether in the letter they sent me. Very disappointed in that interaction. What's your take?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHjhdiG69og

(Notice that he says that ALL the yellow is Boron steel - Is this really true, or was he confused ? I believe he is a design engineer, not a safety engineer - other documents (see links below to a few pictures) seem to contradict his statement - Though I'm sure the yellow is strong steel - I do NOT believe that ALL that yellow is boron)

http://boronextrication.com/2009/11/volvo-xc90-safety-cage-design/

http://www.citizen.org/documents/gdis_2004_bernquist.pdf


In any case, the following video is proof of the strength of the xc90 cage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqNITUm3WA8&feature=related


Can you share with use where you were able to look up the relative amounts of Boron in different vehicles ?

I noticed that the Porsche Cayenne seems to have a lot of Boron in its side structures and throughout.
http://boronextrication.com/2010/04/porsche-cayenne-construction-body-uhss-and-boron/

Surprisingly, I have not been able to find ANY evidence that Mercedes and Audi use Boron in their SUVs. Could this really be ? Seems unlikely based on the roof strength tests conducted by NHTSA where Mercedes' roofs are 50% stronger than the nearest competitors, including Volvo. Mercedes for some reason makes note of their use of Hydroformed steel? Why? Is it stronger than Boron ? Is anything stronger than Boron that is in use in vehicles today ?

If you were to rank SUVs by the amount of Boron in their Safety cage structure, who would come in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place for you?

Where do the XC60, Mercedes GL, Mercedes ML, Lexus LX550, and Porsche Cayenne fall on your list ? Would you consider a heavy non-SUV vehicle for your family members?

Thanks in advance !







I'm able to look up any vehicle structure that was manufactured in the past 20 years.

The XC90 has more Boron metal in it then any other structure to date.

Boron is the strongest metal in the auto industry. It's stronger then ultra high strength steel.
Most high end vehicles have a combination of high strength and ultra high strength. There is no Boron in them, like the XC90.

The XC90 floor pan and majority of the rear floor are Boron. This platform makes a very strong foundation.

The Roof inner supports,B pillar inner structure 3rd layer , are made out of Boron.

The front inner structure,doors, 2nd layer of metal at the roof,b pillar,c pillar and 1/4 panel are high strength steel.

Boron is so hard, the cutters and metal blades dull out in a short period of time.

A plasma cutter is is cutting tool most commonly used.

The 2012 XC60 doesn't have what the XC90 does.

So for those of us who have choosen the XC90, and it's 10 year old desigh, it is the best thing out there todate, in my opinion.


VFLXC90
 

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>It seems that volvo designed the XC60 without these horizontal rails in the seats and with no such
> internal crash box.

From the XC60 brochure where they describe SIPS:

The steel framework of the car – including the front
seats – is designed and reinforced to help displace the impact
of a side-collision away from the occupants to other parts of
the car body and help prevent intrusion into the cabin.

http://www.volvocars.com/us/sales-services/sales/Documents/Volvo-MY12-XC60-Brochure.pdf

Current Volvo lineup with videos of S60 / XC60 and the seats:

http://boronextrication.com/tag/volvo/

Also, check out the results with minimal overlap frontal collisions after looking at the steel
around the rear of the wheel well in the above links. See page 14:

http://www.iihs.org/LifeSavers/presentations/Jermakian_Advanced%20Occupant%20Protection%20Technology_SmallOverlap.pdf

In these crashes the front of the card (the subframe) is missed and most of the impact
is right in front of the tire which doesn't leave much to absorb the impact before
it hits the firewall area / safety cage.
 

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The 2012 XC60 doesn't have what the XC90 does.

So for those of us who have choosen the XC90, and it's 10 year old desigh, it is the best thing out there todate, in my opinion.


VFLXC90

How does the xc70 wagon compare? up to 2007,,, then 2008 -2012/13

We are looking at them an like the wagon, not as tall, but same ground clearance as xc90. Although if the 90 had a super efficient diesel, there wouldn't be any question, I'd order one tomorrow for euro delivery!
 

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VFLXC90 said:
The XC90 has more Boron metal in it then any other structure to date.
While that may or may not be true (not saying you're wrong, but I'd be interested in seeing a source for your info), it appears that the XC60, while about 500 pounds lighter so that accounts for something in frontal crashes, has a stronger structure (pound for pound, i.e., when crashing into itself or vehicles of a similar weight in frontal crashes) than the XC90 regardless, at least according to IIHS tests. The XC60's frontal intrusion measurements (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=50&type=f) and side intrusion measurements (http://www.iihs.org/ratings/datatables.aspx?class=50&type=s) are both lower for the XC60 than for the XC90. For example in the side impact crash test, post-crash the barrier was 22cm away from the seat centerline in the XC60, and 9.5cm away from the seat centerline in the XC90, which translates to about 5 inches. (EDIT: A 5 inch difference between the two I should say.)

This would make sense, seeing that the XC60 came out about 7 years after the XC90.
 

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VFLXC90,


If you were to rank SUVs by the amount of Boron in their Safety cage structure, who would come in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place for you?

Where do the XC60, Mercedes GL, Mercedes ML, Lexus LX550, and Porsche Cayenne fall on your list ? Would you consider a heavy non-SUV vehicle for your family members?

Thanks in advance !
Doesn't the Land Rover LR4 also have boron steel?
 

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Reviving an old thread as I came across the Bernquist presentation for the XC90 cage design (see subpost #6) and thought it might be of renewed interest to folks who have purchased XC90s the past couple of years.
 

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Please please DO NOT THINK that xc90 will save your life just like this.
I see few accident with and all people dies including the worse one in
Czech Republic 2 years ago. Mother and 4 girls...

Never ever think ah now I drive xc90 and Im safe. Never.

Every single accident is different. In common accident in town this can help
you life yes but trust me all other highways and different crash proved that
nothing will save your life.

You in USA Canada must drive 70 miles per hour maximum speed. In Europe
we can go even 150 in some German hihghways... normal speed allowed
is 120-130 km/h in highways. But most of the people drive faster 160-180 km/h
and on certain routes where no one is present I drive even 200 km/h.

Nothing will save your life not Boron. And check better its not all car made from Boron.

p.s. safety belt? in town? Perfect safety. My neighbourg with name Korda drive with girlfriend only she had a belt he
drives without. Crash accident she died immidietely in car from windshield cut his throath and body all over
and he was expelled out of car 15 m away with few scratches. Untill today he is sick / psihiatric problems
as he cant admit that she is dead...

Drive safe and dont think ever ever that Volvo will safe your life and HOnda or other plastic fantastic Dacia and
Renault made from coca cola can will not. We can speak about safety and improvement from Volvo car company
to safety but simple Harley DAvidson crashed in xc90 opened roof metal part cut heads to people and xc90 didnt
save lifes.

Sorry but its commercials bulling with such a stories. Tousands of accidents all is different. I dont wont to place
this photos of XC90 just will tell you: the last crash I see in real - Im owner of xc90 10 years and I know every
single design or parts...and I needed over few minutes to recognize xc90 D5 in crash accident in Germany. Please...RIP.
 

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Interesting point(s) made, intent of reviving the post was to show thought process behind some of the safety features.

Maybe not of much interest to folks in Europe but in the US, a group (IIHS) records statistics on overall car death rates here which includes granularity at vehicle model http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/driver-death-rates

Data seems to be recorded in intervals of a few years and for the 2011 year sample in the US, 0 deaths for XC90 (average 28). For 2008 year sample, 28 deaths for XC90 (average 48).

So what does this mean? Maybe not too much. Any person can drive a car into a wall or into another car and the faster and more powerful the car then the more damage it can cause (inertia).

But for occupant survivability in a crash, the Volvo XC90 does very well. And that's a statistical fact.

We can get into many anecdotal stories about individuals who have suffered fatalities in car crashes (Volvo specific or Volvo included), I'm sorry for them and their families, whatever reason these have occurred.

But to get back to my original point, bringing this post back up was to give people who have recently purchased XC90s an idea as to the work that went into making this SUV very safe in a collision.

I like this car so much that I own 2 of them, and I have a 15 year old daughter that will be driving soon. She'll be driving a Volvo so long as it's my car she's driving.
 

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Of course statistics is one, real accidents and all over the world is another crudelity in any accident where people
die or have serious injuries.
In Europe we have also very serious fine rules in some countries after 2 serious car is taken away and sell for
state account. You will get 18 point need to go again from begining to driving school and forbidden to drive
a year even 2. But statistics say: drunk people, mobile phone, headphones on, tired drivings, drugs ect...

In Germany you can drive as much you can if no one wait you at home say my grandmother. Other people also
have someone at home waiting for them...

I dont trust that Volvo or any car will save my life bcs of statistics made only in USA. This is most of them
paid by car producers comercials ect. Lets be realistics we all know what is USA car idnustry capable to blame
other producers starting from Toyota, Volvo, ect...to sell more and more own cars produced in USA. ok?

But no politics here we know how they wont to blame Toyota for carpet at the end was not original in this accident.
We all know how Ford destroyed Volvo quality last 10 years ect.

Safety from Volvo can help but cant be any reference in any statistics made only in 1 single country like USA
where all of you drives like old retired pensionist with scare of fine to pay 500 or more $. Driving in such a
environement is totaly under pressure respecting that we drive from point A to B. Driving our families ect.

Yes but why than they produce cars with 330 km /h insturments why you in USA made 5000 cc engines?
To drink 30 liters per 100 km fuel. All this SPorty cars ect? That you drive in front of Bar with high loud
subwoofer and be big boss as I remember 10 years ago who was importing or purchasing European cars
as Porsche, Mercedes, BMW was Wow important?

I drive over 34 years and in my country and in Europe I see many car accidents, helping taking in my
hands girl of 16 years dead see Volvos destroyed and no one will tell me Volvo will save your life as this is
BS. Bcs. you never know which car will kick you from other side. WHat speed, how strong is or light truck
or even conrete wall one big tree ect. Dont push me to place here my photos and many times was disgusting
to make photos of accidents of someone where many people die. Imagine xc90 in Czech republic totaly destroyed
mother and 4 young girls going back home and light truck kick them directly. Statistics say xc90 will save... say this
their families.:( And VCC doing the best to cover, hide or delete such a photos from web. Tell me why. All is car
selling mafia. VOlvo lost in USA selling bcs of politics and also of decreased quality and courts, lemons and problems we
know very well common problems last 10 years ok. VCC invested milions in USA for commercials, every old movie
in Holywood had one Volvo in ect...but they lost clients trust bcs my is 2006 and half parts was made in China,
Poland, Spain, Australia, India and other 23 countries. No more old good Swedish respectfull production. All is
only assembled in Torslanda, Thailand, Belgium and now China.

Do you wont to post lists of other owners problems and my list of changed parts in first 2 years and later on first 4 up to 10?
We know very well that this will not help to save our lifes if one drunk drug full driver in Hammer made in USA kick xc90 in
high speed. Ok? No hard feelings we chat...forget statistics and keep eye on road and monkey drivers.:eek:
 

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I don't think anyone's point is that a Volvo will absolutely save you so you shouldn't be attentive when driving. I think the point being made is that if you have to be in an accident, wouldn't you rather be in an accident inside a car whose manufacturer took many steps for many years to try and develop as safe a vehicle as possible and statistically gives you a higher potential to survive? I know I would and that explains why there's 3 Volvos in my signature. As you point out, in the event of a very high speed accident or a massively mismatched accident, the vehicle will not matter. But for the majority of accidents, being in a vehicle with many safety designs integrated will be a huge advantage and cannot be overlooked.
 

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Of course I never deny this point. But from what I see in my life nothing will helps
in high speed accident. Nothing. I repeat you are pushed to drive slowly caution
slow motion limited with crazy limits instead of other parts of world especially in Europe.

Germany allowing in some highways high speed and for example in Italy they installed
better protection than any car or Volvo safety its so called Tutor.

When you enter on highway your licence is recorded and time...every 10-25 km is ramp
where cameras check your average speed from entrance to other ramp...and like this
almost all Italy is covered. In some areas the have only other name.

In first 12 months of installment:

-51 % rate of death
-27 % of accident with injuries
-19% of accidents

- 15 % of high speed drivers reduced speed
-25 % less accidents than before

I dont need I supose to mention country mentality, temperament, mediteranian, gens ect?
Culture behaviour, respect, school learn of basic traffic rules up to family involvement.

For all this we dont need Volvo safety at all.

p.s. to be honest I drive very fast on highways average 130-160 km/h and when Im alone
and on special parts where no one is present I go to 200 km /h for short time to burn
town deposits and clean engine from slwo motion drives. Friend from Canada told me:
Ah Branko if you do this in Canada or USA they will put you in prison at once. See?

Even engine oils for USA are different than from Europe bcs of average constant speed
totaly different than in Europe. Yes it is. For same models of cars.

Volvo xc90 2.5t have instrument up to 260km/h. Why? If limits are 130km/h max.?
Lexus 600h I drive 270km/h and have instruments up to 280 km/h.

For what? Not to mention other sporty cars.

Safe drive and enjoy. Regards from speedy Europe. :eek:
 
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