SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone,<p>I have a 1980 244 DL.<p>Yesterday, Friday, April 17, 2009, I was driving around doing errands, but got stuck in a bottleneck during rush-hour traffic (took ~45min to move 2 miles). This was also the first real "warm" day of the year (78 degrees Fahrenheit).<p>While stopped at idle at about the 1.5 mile mark, I noticed a new buzzing/rattle-type noise that could be heard separately from but in addition to the normal hum of the engine.<p>I couldn't locate the source of the sound. And, when driving, I was unable to hear the new noise, so I don't know if it disappeared or was just masked by the engine/road/environment noises.<p>Before heading home, I made one last errand stop and while pulling into a parking space, the engine cut off and the instrument panel lights flashed on. When I turned the key to re-start the engine (so I could fully pull into the parking spot), the engine started right up and no instrument panel lights turned on. <p>After returning to the car about ten minutes later, I did a general look-over check (around the car and under the hood) and noticed nothing unusual. The car started right back up and made the trip home (about 5-7 miles) without further incident, but continued to make the new buzzing/rattle-type noise that I only heard at idle.<p>I have not started or driven the car yet today.<p>---<p>I'm not sure if it is related or not, but I had a prior issue a couple weeks ago:<br>On Saturday, April 4, 2009, my car wouldn't start. <br>I had it jump-started, drove around for ~20 minutes, and then went to a local indy shop (not my regular shop, which is closed on Saturdays) to test the battery-- the results showed that a new battery was needed. One was ordered and installed on Tuesday, April 7 (the shop is closed on Sundays and Mondays).<p>---<p>My regular indy shop will be open on Monday, but I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts/ideas about what this is or could be.<p>Thanks for your time,<br>volvie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

It could be a heatshield on the exhaust or even the heat pickup that goes to the air cleanner. I've had this on a previous car and the one I have now also started buzzing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,953 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (VolvoBob)

The buzz/rattle may not be related to the battery/start problem(s).<p>Do a full check of the charging system including the wiring/belt/mounts/regulator and look for poor electrical grounds/connections/junctions.<p>The "dash lights lit up like christmas" hints at a direct (intermittent) short in the wiring harness usually in the engine compartment near the firewall and/or the exhaust manifold.<p>The buzz/rattle at idle could be the alternator having internal mechanical problems at low speed.<p>If you are in long-term stop-n-go traffic with much no-move time consider slipping the shift lever to N and applying the handbrake rather than a continuously-pressed brake pedal. If the AC causes a rough/low idle use the go pedal to up rpm's slightly to prevent engine shake as this movement has been known to aggravate the electrical problems associated with a deteriorated engine wiring harness and poor electrical connections.<p>George Dill<p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (gdill2)

Hi VolvoBob and gdill2,<p>Thank you for taking the time to respond and share your thoughts! It is very much appreciated!<p>Last night I started up the car, but did not hear the new sound and my mom couldn't hear it either, so hopefully it is just heat related.<p>If I am ever in a similar bottle-neck traffic situation again, I will definitely put the car in Neutral and use the parking brake-- thanks for the advice!<p>---<p>I just got off the phone for a verbal consult with my indy shop, and they also seem to think that the buzzing/rattling noise is related to the exhaust and heat.<p>As for the engine cut-off and instrument light flash, they think that it might also be heat related as it might have effected the idle and slowed down too much/didn't get enough gas that it cut out...<p>They also said that it probably isn't a big deal, but that I could drop the car off and have them try to get it really hot to replicate the problem.<p>In the meantime, I'll take the car for a (longer) drive around the neighborhood and see what happens...<p>Take care,<br>volvie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

were you running the AC at the time? The additional noise could have been the AC clutch or compressor.<p>If you were running the AC, how does it work at low speeds? How about at high speeds? If it works poorly the first thing to check is the system pressure, which in you R-12 car requires a trip to the AC shop. You might need a pressure test and refill of R-12.<p>Your compressor or AC clutch might be going out too.<p>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvostud)

Hi volvostud,<p>My car does have AC, but it was not turned on at the time as I prefer having the windows down.<p>Although it may not be related to this issue, my car could probably use an AC check...<p>Take care,<br>volvie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

Let the car idle, then get out with the hood up and try to track down the location of the rattle. These old volvo's are full of rattles, finding the right one is easiest if you are looking in the right place.<p>Good luck.<p>Matt
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvostud)

Hi volvostud,<p>I have another round of errands to run, so I'll see if I can replicate the problem and localize the sound while idling in a parking spot-- Thanks for the advice!<p>Take care,<br>Elizabeth / volvie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

Are you still getting instrument panel lights at startup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (FrankM)

Hi Everyone,<p>An update-- I was able to replicate both problems (the new noise and engine cutting off) again today. <p>Here is a summary of the day:<p>When I started up the car to run errands (around 3:00P), the car started right up and did not make the new buzzing/rattle-type noise.<p>As I ran my errands, the car gradually started making the new buzzing/rattle-type noise-- it started really softly (around 5:00P) and gradually got louder over time (around 6:30P).<p>But, the fun didn't start until we were running our last errand (between 6:30P and 7:15P)...<p>The drive started on roads that are mostly flat or downhill declines and gradually transitioned to more hilly roads with gradual/steady uphill inclines.<p>After stopping at a street light to make a left turn up one of these gradual inclines, the car lost some power, but did not completely cut off midway through the left turn.<p>The car also successfully made it up a steeper incline without losing power, but after stopping at a stop sign at a leveling off of the incline and turning left up another more gradual incline, the car engine cut completely off twice in short succession before I made it up the rest of the incline only to cut off again as I was turning in to a parking spot.<p>The good part is that car always starts right up after cutting off.<p>After running the last errand and letting the car sit for 15 minutes, we began the adventurous ride home, hugging the right line/road shoulder. <p>The car would consistently loose power (but not cut all the way off) after coming to a complete stop at a street light, so I began making slow approaches to stop lights so that I would not have to make a compete stop. I stopped counting the number of power losses without complete engine cutoff after 10...<p>As we got closer to home, I had to drive with the hazard lights on as we had a few more inclines/stops to make and the engine began to loose power more frequently and completely cut off two more times before we got home.<p>All this adventure occurred over a sixteen mile one way trip from the last destination to our home.<p>Today's high temperature was 94 degrees Fahrenheit and as I am writing this, the temperature is 89 degrees Fahrenheit. <p>And, the AC was not on (I had the windows down and the radio off to better listen to the car).<p>So, what are your thoughts? Any new ideas/suspects?<br>My mom says the engine cut off reminds her of our old 1981 242 when it had a vacuum issue.<p>I'll likely call/drive it over to the local indy shop where I bought the battery tomorrow (as my regular shop is ~12 miles away and this shop is less than a mile away from my home).<p><br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>FrankM</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you still getting instrument panel lights at startup?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Hi FrankM,<p>The instrument panel light flash only occurs when the engine cuts off.<p>When I start the car (which starts correctly each time), I only see the usual parking brake, seatbelt, etc. lights...<p>Thanks for your time,<br>volvie!<BR><BR>
<i>Modified by volvie! at 1:10 AM 4-22-2009</i>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
394 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

My vote is fuel/air delivery. Either a vac leak, a throttle adjustment issue, or something of the sort. I think your air to fuel is jacked up so when the throttle is not open the car stumbles. That or a fuel delivery issue which is keeping you from getting enough fuel when at idle.<p>How did the car do with simple idling in a parking lot? <p>it sounds like the problems were worse when you were braking? If so then I second my comment about vac. When you apply the brakes you are spiking the vacuum system (to run the brake booster) so you are taking what little vacuum you have and are putting it all to the brakes. You don't have enough vacuum to run the car.<p>So here is a good test for you. Tomorrow morning start the car up and idle it in the driveway with the hood up. You can either take a spray flamable (WD-40, Carb cleaner, etc) or water and slowly mist vacuum hoses and gaskets. If you use water the engine will stumble when you find the vac leak. If you use a flamable it will spike a little.<p>Lastly the noise you hear, it's not coming from inside the cabin is it? Could it be coming from the center dash? If so it might be you have a vac leak within the interior cabin, specifically one of the vac switches that handles the AC/Climate control. Try switching the system over to recycle indoor air. That fixed an air leak I once had.<p><br>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvostud)

Hi volvostud,<p>Thanks again for taking the time to respond and share your hypotheses!<p>I'm going to print this thread out to help me remember all the details...<p>I'll keep you all updated.<p>Take care,<br>volvie!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (volvie!)

1980 and a california car, must have a catalitic converter!<br>Well, that may be your problem, when they fail the core comes apart and does make a ratling sound and will clog the exhaust and cause the stalling you are exeriancing. Had this happen a few times.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: 244: New Buzzing/Rattle-Type Noise-- Thoughts/Ideas? (VolvoBob)

Hi Everyone,<p>Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts and help me figure this out!<p>Here is the latest update:<p>On Wednesday, I took the car in to the local shop down the street to see what they thought it was. The mechanic's first thought was the fuel pump/fuel delivery system, but it took most of the day to replicate the problem and confirm his hypothesis.<p>Apparently failing fuel pumps make this "characteristic" buzzing/rattle-type noise and also lead to the stalling/power-loss issues.<p>On Thursday, the parts were ordered and the work began.<p>A list of all the parts that were replaced to correct this issue:<br>-Fuel Pump<br>-Fuel Filter<br>-O-Ring<br>-Fuel Strainer<br>-Fuel Accumulator<br>-Pre-Pump<p>There were a couple snags in the process: <br>-Once he started taking things apart, he saw that an additional part had some damage and needed to be replaced (fuel accumulator) -and-<br>-One of the ordered parts was defective and needed to be re-ordered (fuel pump)<p>So, the work was finished up early Friday and driven around for ~8 miles to be sure the problem was fixed and did not re-appear.<p>After paying the bill (ouch!), I also drove the car around for a while, re-tracing some of the routes that gave me so much trouble on Tuesday. And, so far, so good. The car only makes it normal humming sound (I love that sound! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emlove.gif" BORDER="0"> ) and hasn't had any power losses or engine cut-offs! Yeah!<p>I'll also be driving it around later today (Saturday) and I'll take it to Davis on Sunday, so if there are any related issues, I'll be sure to post back. But, for now, this issue is resolved!<p>Thanks again,<br>Elizabeth / volvie!<br>
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top