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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's the situation: <p>I'm visiting and walking my host's little dog when I spot a very tatty old 240 sedan in an alley. On closer inspection, I see it's a Turbo with a nice set of Sirrus wheels and fairly decent Kumos. I think "ooo-ooo! those would be perfect on my spiffy red '92." So I leave a note on the windshield with my phone and email. A couple days pass before the owner emails me, and we schedule a meeting to discuss his car and a possible purchase. <p>We can't come together on a price for the whole car, which he regards as nothing but dependable spare transportation, but I venture the idea of swapping tires and wheels, and he being cash-strapped but not desperate to sell the car cheap, is fine with it, so we strike a deal, and now my 240 has new shoes!<p>While we're doing the swap, I mention I might be interested in a sway bar swap -- his Turbo bars for mine plus some cash -- and again, he's willing.<p>Which leads me to my question(s): <p>1. Will our bars exchange without any issues? Bolt up the same way?<p>2. Assuming we've got a level paved surface, a floor jack and access to tools, about how long should it take to make the swap? A whole day or an afternoon? Neither car is rusty, being as we're in the south.<p>3. For him: what's a wrung-out '83 240 Turbo 4-door automatic trans, with mostly dead purplish factory paint worn through in spots, badly tweaked hood, badly cracked dash, sun-burnt and moderately trashed interior, broken tach, dead factory radio, leaky exhaust, needs brakes and suspension work and incorrect wheels and sway bars, but isn't rusty, sunroof doesn't leak, motor doesn't smoke or drip oil, windows work, glass is good, original keys and books present worth? Looks like all the Turbo bits are still present under the hood, too.<p>Thanks for your time -- I love reading the posts here almost as much as I love my wagon, and hope to contribute something of my own Volvo adventures as time passes.<p>Dana
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (coolday)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Will our bars exchange without any issues? Bolt up the same way?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, stripped bolts excepted.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. Assuming we've got a level paved surface, a floor jack and access to tools, about how long should it take to make the swap? A whole day or an afternoon? Neither car is rusty, being as we're in the south.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>2 hrs is enough for people fairly handy with wrenches.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. For him: what's a wrung-out '83 240 Turbo 4-door automatic trans, with mostly dead purplish factory paint worn through in spots, badly tweaked hood, badly cracked dash, sun-burnt and moderately trashed interior, broken tach, dead factory radio, leaky exhaust, needs brakes and suspension work and incorrect wheels and sway bars, but isn't rusty, sunroof doesn't leak, motor doesn't smoke or drip oil, windows work, glass is good, original keys and books present worth? </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Scrap value or sell it to someone interested in parting it out. The phrase "wrung out" says it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (RearWheelPaul)

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm 90 miles from home, doing this in a parking lot, and it's been awhile since I spent any time under a car, so I do appreciate your advice.<p>The WD-40 can is ready for action. Just to be clear, the attachment points and bolt-up are all the same?<p>With 240,000 miles on the clock and a 4-door automatic, I pretty much figured his car wasn't worth much more than a few hundred bucks, which is what I had on me and offered.<p>I'm sure all the bushings will need replacements, so unless I can get them locally, I'll be redoing everything when I get home. Since this is a stock motor and I'm not building a curve-carver, I'm inclined to go bone stock with OE rather than urethane. Any thoughts?<p>Dana<p>
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (coolday)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just to be clear, the attachment points and bolt-up are all the same?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes. <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since this is a stock motor and I'm not building a curve-carver, I'm inclined to go bone stock with OE rather than urethane. Any thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE><p>It's entirely a personal choice. It depends on your shock, wheel and spring set-up and how you plan to drive your car.<p>Poly bushings don't require a hydraulic press. Stock does. Special tool needed to press-out and install the rear trailing arm bushings.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (RearWheelPaul)

Welcome to Swedespeed, Dana.<p>Be sure the cars are fully supported before y'all crawl under them.<p><A HREF="http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-200/Suspension-&-Steering/c-1-69-265" TARGET="_blank">http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-20...9-265</A>/<p><br>George Dill
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (gdill2)

Absolutely! We'll be using four jack stands and a hydraulic floor jack and working on a near level surface, and minimizing the old back to concrete exposure with a nice creeper (although breaking loose old fasteners will involve some ground contact). I'm visiting friends out-of-town, but luckily my host has the proper tools -- this is definitely not a curbside, bumper jack it up on cinder blocks operation. I'm a noob with 240s, but I've worked on my own cars for 35 years.<p>I'll let you know how it comes out. Thanks for the help everybody!<p>Dana
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (coolday)

As usual Paul has given you great info. Unless you run into rusted or stripped fasteners it shouldn't take more than a few hours to swap both sets of bars, probably less. If it helps Saturday I installed my front 28mm bar, did an oil change, replaced some brittle brake line retainers, and swapped both front seats out for new ones in about 4 hours. Even in a parking lot you shouldn't need more time than that.<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I'm sure all the bushings will need replacements, so unless I can get them locally, I'll be redoing everything when I get home. Since this is a stock motor and I'm not building a curve-carver, I'm inclined to go bone stock with OE rather than urethane. Any thoughts?</TD></TR></TABLE><br>Assuming you mean only the two swaybar bushings and the endlink bushings, I see no reason not to go with urethane. They're about the same price, easier to install, last longer, and these bushings are not going to transmit a noticeable amount of vibration into the cabin compared to stock rubber. IPD sells a kit of poly swaybar bushings, lube, brackets, and endlink bushings for about $30 as I recall. It doesn't include the bushing for the endlink to control arm connection though.<br>If you meant all the suspension bushings on your car, then Pauls advice is dead on and it all comes down to personal choice. Personally I have urethane bushings in almost all of my suspension and love them, especially the ease of replacement compared to the stock rubber.<br>
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (neptune)

And this might save you some time, too (I know I wish I knew this ahead of time):<p>CHANGE THE REST WHILE IT'S APART!<p>The IPD kit did a great job stiffening and all. Too good, as it turned out. Within a month the rest of the bushings (still factory-style rubber) started failing, most notably the front lower control arm bushing where it meets (or is closest to) the firewall.<p>Sure they would've worn out anyway, but I have a hard time believing they'd all have "failed" (started "clonking" around corners) so soon and so close together in time with the standard setup.<p>[Of course, the whole reason I was upgrading the suspension was to be able to drive my wagon more aggressively, so that might have contributed, too.]<p>Anyway, just inspect everything else down there to save yourself some cost,. time and frustration. After all, if you go into it assuming you have to replace everything, you have a chance of being PLEASANTLY surprised for once...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (MillionMilePlus245DL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MillionMilePlus245DL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And this might save you some time, too (I know I wish I knew this ahead of time):<p>CHANGE THE REST WHILE IT'S APART!</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Would've if I could've, but remember, I'm visiting friends a hundred miles from my home base. The bars came straight off the 238,000 mile, 26 y/o donor car, and went straight onto my 173,000 mile, 17 y/o wagon, and vice-versa. What with both cars having squished out stock bushings, and the way I drive my wagon, I doubt I'll be stressing all the other old bushings too much.<p>We finished the swap in about three hours. Would've been quicker but for some fumbling on one stubborn bracket bolt which threatened to strip. <p>The improvement over my wagon's smaller diameter bars just in normal around-town driving was immediately apparent, and at least to me, well worth the time and expense. I know a more comprehensive approach would've been better (and it's coming), but I'm happy with the results. Thanks to everyone who offered advice!<p>Dana <p> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (MillionMilePlus245DL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MillionMilePlus245DL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">18- to 19-inch wheels </TD></TR></TABLE><p>In a car with 114 BHP and 9 1/2 inch disks? <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MillionMilePlus245DL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(run while you still can)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Word.<p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (RearWheelPaul)

Go ahead and have your fun! Like water off a duck's back -- I'm used to it. I once owned a '67 Peugeot 404 sedan, with the fully reclining seats and a column-shift four-speed and skinny 3-lug factory rims (at least they were 15"). In the '80s, 404s became a favorite of Middle East terrorists who packed them full of explosives and ran them through road blocks... but that's another story. Great car, really -- it could cut a corner better than my 240 wagon would before I nabbed this guy's Virgos and bigger bars!<p>Seriously, I know it'll be much better with new bushings, and I'll probably go with urethane as soon as time permits. Dunno about lowering, but the 240's ride height does seem ridiculously high for a non-SUV. <p>Dana<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (MillionMilePlus245DL)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MillionMilePlus245DL</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... 18- to 19-inch wheels (run while you still can) ...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I hope you're joking here. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0"> 18/19" rims = more un-sprung weight+more rotating mass+massive speedo error+totally confused ABS sytem. Unless, of course, you can find a tire with a ridiculously small section height to keep you within the overall wheel diameter tolerance. Hmm. does anyone make something like a 225/10x19 tire? <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/tongue.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (coolday)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>coolday</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go ahead and have your fun! </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I own a 1991 240. It's a fine car that I wouldn't dream of putting 19" wheels on. 15s, sure. 16s, perhaps. Nothing larger though.<p>Virgos are a good bet with a 195/60R15. You'll keep the stock rolling diameter and will be able to keep up with many cars around a corner.<p>Big wheels are dumb for the street. Not enough cushion to the sidewall = bent rims and skipping through a bumpy turn.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (RearWheelPaul)

I went through my '91 245 and did all the bushings front & back (done 4 others, some poly, some not)<br>My take is that the orig Volvo bushings is the way to go for all the suspension bushings except for the front sway bar & links. These don't add harshness to the ride, just helps in cornering and stabilty. Also the rear panhard bar works well with poly bushings. Otherwise, I have had bad experiences with aftermarket rubber, IPD and others with poor quality, and always found myself cursing on my way to the dealer to get the OEM bushings and do the job over.<br>You can do the front sway bushings in about 1/2 hr with the car on the ground, as long as it's not lowered, so get the IPD bushing kit incl the lower links.<p>Also, the sway bars should not be torqued or set while the car is on jackstands, it should always be done when the car is on all fours, on a flat surface. Bounce the car a few times then set & torque. If you torque the rear bar without the full weight of the car on the suspension it will loosen up soon. This is a PITA without a lift, but can be done.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (101Ponies)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>101Ponies</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... Also, the sway bars should not be torqued or set while the car is on jackstands, it should always be done when the car is on all fours, on a flat surface. Bounce the car a few times then set & torque. If you torque the rear bar without the full weight of the car on the suspension it will loosen up soon. This is a PITA without a lift, but can be done.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>True, and ideally you should also "zero" the bars to remove any pre-load before they're connected to the end links too. That requires either adjustable links or ones that can be shimmed, and it looks like there's enough thread on the stock end links to be able to shim them up to 1/8" or so.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (coolday)

<br>"about lowering, but the 240's ride height does seem ridiculously high for a non-SUV."<p>I had to say something.....<p>Don't you know that the 140/240 wagon was the original SUV??<p>Before that they were trucks, and IMHO, they still are. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>I saw a '65 Impala last week in beautifully restored condition. Show quality top down. It had 22" wheels, and all I could say was "What a shame"<p>To each their own. You can take it.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (101Ponies)

Let me put it to you like this. <br>"Beautifully restored" does not translate into having hugely out of proportion rims. End of story. <br>My 280 SL has the standard rims with hub caps... and there is no way that I would change that. <br>Actually... I would like to view the 'restoration' in person. I'll bet that it's just an expensive repaint.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (JBLasVegas)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>JBLasVegas</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My 280 SL </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Nice car. Even nicer engine. Too bad MB got rid of the beautiful I6s.
 

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Re: 240 Sway Bar Driveway Swap-out (John2x240)

After much deliberation--and doing some digging in my garage--it turns out I had my cars/wheel diameters mixed up (those autocross 240 wheels were 16s, not 18 or above [those 19s were for my Mustang]). <p>None of my extra wheel sets for any of my cars are meant as "dubs" though, just track, street and snow options on various factory/OEM rims. <p>After all, though I love her original steel wheels with chrome center caps, no 240 mod helps handling like getting rid of those super-tall sidewalls that go with the stock 14" wheels...
 
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