[Landsharkk]

Wow, thank you all so much. The responses here have been fantastic. I did not expect this to get so many responses and so quickly!

You've all made some very good points.

Tires:
Even the Subaru Ascent comes with lower profile tires now, which seems odd considering they market their vehicles as adventure/dirt road. I'd be replacing the wheels/tires no matter which vehicle we end up with. I prefer more rubber on the side wall.

Seats:
At the moment we have a 9 year old and 7 year old both in booster seats, and our 5 year old in a child car seat. We are expecting our 4th child in September, so add another child seat. The configuration we'd use with the XC90 is using the integrated booster in the middle 2nd row (awesome feature btw, my Wife was really excited about it), two child car seats on the ends of the 2nd row, and another kid in booster in the 3rd row. We'd always have half the 3rd row folded down for more cargo room.

Side note on cargo space. Yes we are taking a big hit on cargo by going from a minivan to an SUV. However, there would be more useable space in the SUV, because with our minivan having 2 seats in 2nd row and 3 in the 3rd row, we'd always have to use the entire 3rd row with 4 kids. We'd be limited to using only the storage behind the 3rd row. With an SUV having 2nd row bench seats, we get to fold down half the 3rd row and still have enough room. We'd be getting a roof cargo holder for those 'as needed' trips.

Looks:
@rfkuehn You made a really good point that I also noticed with 2023 Ascent. Weird placement of chrome! Seriously the lower front end chrome pieces are just weird. Granted Subaru isn't known for interior/exterior aesthetics. Luckily both my Wife and I have similar tastes in vehicle looks. We both prefer the 'blacked out' look. And I know that the topic of chrome can be polarizing, we both do not like chrome. However, I think it's safe to say the XC90 looks far superior to the Ascent even with the chrome. Unfortunately the Ascent "Onyx" (blacked out) trim doesn't come with 8 seats (a requirement to allow half the 3rd row folded down with 4 kids in the car), so it's not an option for us.

I will say our Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Minivan in "S" trim looks pretty dang nice, especially for a minivan!

Cost:
In the grand scheme of things, the overall cost is basically equal (a couple hundred more per year on the Volvo) thanks to current gas prices and our financial situation (tax credits, trade in values, etc, etc). I tend to overthink things and made a spreadsheet showing cost of ownership year by year for 10 years and found the XC90 and Ascent are pretty even for the first few years (using the info I have). The XC90 becomes more expensive years 4 and 5 due to the higher cost of the vehicle and the loan, then less expensive after that every year... Assuming gas continues at $5/gallon minimum (we pay about $6 right now). The cost isn't really that big of a deal, but still factored into the equation. I think the loan difference for us between the Ascent and XC90 would be about $23k more for the XC90.

So the question I've been asking myself, is the XC90 worth that extra $23k? Safety, features, fun, AWD/capability, reliability, aesthetics, comfort, confidence inspiring, etc.

While being a Subaru fan, truthfully I've only ever owned 1 Subaru (my 2004 WRX Wagon) and it's very basic in terms of features (manual transmission, manual HVAC, etc), but it's given us 241k trouble free miles, it's very fun to drive, and still drives like new despite me driving it hard every time I'm behind the wheel. Can Volvo do the same? I'd like to keep our next car for at least 200k miles.

EDIT: I wanted to add one more thing. In early 2021 our Pacifica had 6k miles on it and we took a family trip from Seattle area down to Palm Springs, CA. However, 700 miles into the trip the van died, complete transmission failure and left my family and I stranded in the middle of nowhere (80 mile tow trip!). It spent 2 months at a dealership 700 miles from home. 1 week after getting the van back the bolts literally fell out of the front-right control arm (and loose on front left) causing damage, which could have been extremely dangerous (it steered in random directions despite steering input, again with my whole family in it). So 1 week after getting it back from the transmission issue it was towed again right back to the dealership for another month. Then this year it spent another month at dealership service for various issues (dead heater, various suspension problems, some electronic issues, etc). We bought it for family trips and family hauling and it simply can't do it safely, let alone reliably. Any cost and time saving benefits we got by using it as a plug-in hybrid were completely offset by all the problems it has given us.

In contrast, 2 weeks ago my Dad and I drove his 2010 Subaru Forester over 3,000 miles in 6 days from Gettysburg, PA to Seattle area and had zero issues.

I want a vehicle that can do cross country tips without issue as well. Not being familiar with Volvo's, any feedback on taking one for a long distance trip would be great!

 

[ChrisZX]

Many people use XC90 T8 as tow vehicle over long distances, so they can be reliable. So far what I’ve see is the new T8 ERs are either work just fine or having issues right away. The latter seems to be a small percentage.

IMO, if the family likes it and money is not a dealer breaker, XC90 seems to be the one you want. They are very well packaged, and I’ve not been as excited about a SUV since our last 3L TDI Touareg. I’ve looked at X5s, Cayennes (which are repackaged Touaregs), Range rover sports, Model X etc.

 

[kevdiggity40]

Current owner of a 2022 Subaru Ascent Onyx in Wilderness Green. I love green cars. Really love the army green on the current Toyota trucks but not an option for me at the moment with 4 kids. My first car was a 1990 Sedan. I've also owned 2006 and 2010 Outbacks. Unrefined but great, tough vehicles with zero issues. Climbed out of snowy driveways in the Sierras that stranded other SUVS. Big fan.

I have owned 4 Volvos...2010 XC90, 2011 XC70 T6, 2010 V70, 2015 XC70 3.2 Platinum. T6 was an oil burner and I sold it back to a Volvo dealer. I used the V70 as a commuter car but the cat needed replacing at 150k and cost more than the car was worth, so I sold it. I traded in the 2015 XC70 for the Ascent last December because used car values were through the roof (got thousands more than I paid for it a few years earlier) and a good friend is a regional marketing mgr for Subaru and gave me VIP pricing and an employee discount to order an Ascent). Like you, I looked long and hard at the Pacifica Hybrid...was sitting at a desk ready to make a deal in November 2020 but after haggling for 2+ hours in a shady Chrysler dealership, I bailed. I've also considered the XC90 but it never made sense due to lack of space compared to our Toyota Sienna. Tried to get a newer hybrid Sienna but the current wait list is 1 year plus most places, so I took my friend's offer for the Ascent. I added additional USB ports, the panoramic sunroof, phone charger, upgraded audio and discounted 8 year/100k gold warranty for well under 40k with discounts. I couldn't come close to that even with a 2-3 yo CPO non-plug in XC90, so I went back to Subie.

I test drove a 2021 XC90 and took my wife and 4 kids (14, 12, 9, 7 yo) along. It was just too tight and getting in the 3rd row seat was a bear. If I eventually get an XC90, I'll 100% get the 6 passenger configuration. The Ascent's rear doors swing wide open, almost perpendicular to the body of the vehicle, making in and out easier. Rear storage stinks compared to a minivan, so we have the Thule box on top. I'd guess 75% of it's miles have been in town and the avg MPG is 18.5. Not great but slightly better than our AWD van. It's quieter than I expected and rides very smoothly on the highway. The Onyx models have the StarTex synthetic seats and I like them better than I thought I would. Not super hot or sweaty in summer heat and very stain resistant (youngest sun spilled half a bottle of sunblock on one seat and it wiped right off). We knew this would be our Sierras/camping/ski/snow vehicle and I like the blacked-out look, so that's why we went with the Onyx version. The XC90 is a much nicer vehicle, is more refined, looks better and in my heart, I'll always love Volvos but financially, the Ascent wins hands down and is good enough for now. I would love the plug-in and will probably eventually get an XC90 but for my family and situation, I can't justify the 30k+ cost difference. Most NorCal Subaru dealers are also top notch and rival the MB and Volvo dealers I've experienced in the recent past. Volvos are certainly the safest cars on the road but the Ascent is no slouch and is the only other non-Volvo vehicle I've seen that actually deflects off the barrier in the IIHS tests.

Best of luck. I think you'll be happy with either choice.

 

[BolboLubber]

While being a Subaru fan, truthfully I've only ever owned 1 Subaru (my 2004 WRX Wagon) and it's very basic in terms of features (manual transmission, manual HVAC, etc), but it's given us 241k trouble free miles, it's very fun to drive, and still drives like new despite me driving it hard every time I'm behind the wheel. Can Volvo do the same? I'd like to keep our next car for at least 200k miles.

If reliability is a priority, I'd suggest something less luxury.
While many on this board will obviously steer you towards a Volvo, reliability has been a mixed bag. Some love them, some despise them (don't believe me? read some older posts).
If reliability is your main concern, I'd suggest skipping both and going for a Toyota/Lexus SUV.
Sure, they might not have the latest tech and will be more expensive than a Subaru/Volvo but from a statistical perspective, you and your vehicle will spend less time in the service department of your local dealership.

 

[westseattleite]

I think either will be a good choice - I'd try to spend as much time as you can with each to see if one appeals to you more than the other.

However, I'd like to offer a curveball of a third choice - an AWD hybrid Toyota Sienna. I live in Seattle and have both a 2021 XC90 and a 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE AWD. Both our vehicles have been great in all kinds of weather, including crossing the passes in the Winter. I know you're not looking at vans, but the new Siennas are pretty nice and offer a lot of space for a large family, with a good amount of storage behind the third row. We were supposed to trade in the Toyota when we got the Volvo, but kept it because it's so darn handy. Minivan stigma aside, they really are ideal for hauling kids around. I do think both the vehicles you're considering will be a little tight for the constant in-and-out of kids, your results may vary.

 

[northcar]

Be sure to consider Ascent‘s new face for MY23. Carefully.
View attachment 158472

2023 Subaru Ascent: not an improvement...

This is the revised front end of the Subaru Ascent for 2023.And it is exactly the opposite of an improvement. I mean, just look at this mess.Instead

www.burlappcar.com

Gotta admit it does make the Subaru even more appliance looking. Love those vacuum hose vents for sucking up road dust.

 

[Landsharkk]

I think either will be a good choice - I'd try to spend as much time as you can with each to see if one appeals to you more than the other.

However, I'd like to offer a curveball of a third choice - an AWD hybrid Toyota Sienna. I live in Seattle and have both a 2021 XC90 and a 2005 Toyota Sienna XLE AWD. Both our vehicles have been great in all kinds of weather, including crossing the passes in the Winter. I know you're not looking at vans, but the new Siennas are pretty nice and offer a lot of space for a large family, with a good amount of storage behind the third row. We were supposed to trade in the Toyota when we got the Volvo, but kept it because it's so darn handy. Minivan stigma aside, they really are ideal for hauling kids around. I do think both the vehicles you're considering will be a little tight for the constant in-and-out of kids, your results may vary.

I want to like the Sienna, but the problem is that they only offer AWD in 7 passenger configuration (2nd row captain chairs with 3 seats in the 3rd row), which brings us back to the cargo problem. We would always have to have the 3rd row up in that situation, limiting our cargo to behind 3rd row only. They do offer 8 passenger seating, but only in the lowest LE trim, which means removing a ton of otherwise useful features that we'd like to have.

The trade off for us if leaving the mini-van is to get AWD and better ground clearance, plus towing capacity (would like to tow a pop-up tent trailer and a small sailboat). If we had a smaller family size the choice would be a bit easier.

 

[kevintinple]

Wow, thank you all so much. The responses here have been fantastic. I did not expect this to get so many responses and so quickly!

You've all made some very good points.

Tires:
Even the Subaru Ascent comes with lower profile tires now, which seems odd considering they market their vehicles as adventure/dirt road. I'd be replacing the wheels/tires no matter which vehicle we end up with. I prefer more rubber on the side wall.

Seats:
At the moment we have a 9 year old and 7 year old both in booster seats, and our 5 year old in a child car seat. We are expecting our 4th child in September, so add another child seat. The configuration we'd use with the XC90 is using the integrated booster in the middle 2nd row (awesome feature btw, my Wife was really excited about it), two child car seats on the ends of the 2nd row, and another kid in booster in the 3rd row. We'd always have half the 3rd row folded down for more cargo room.

Side note on cargo space. Yes we are taking a big hit on cargo by going from a minivan to an SUV. However, there would be more useable space in the SUV, because with our minivan having 2 seats in 2nd row and 3 in the 3rd row, we'd always have to use the entire 3rd row with 4 kids. We'd be limited to using only the storage behind the 3rd row. With an SUV having 2nd row bench seats, we get to fold down half the 3rd row and still have enough room. We'd be getting a roof cargo holder for those 'as needed' trips.

Looks:
@rfkuehn You made a really good point that I also noticed with 2023 Ascent. Weird placement of chrome! Seriously the lower front end chrome pieces are just weird. Granted Subaru isn't known for interior/exterior aesthetics. Luckily both my Wife and I have similar tastes in vehicle looks. We both prefer the 'blacked out' look. And I know that the topic of chrome can be polarizing, we both do not like chrome. However, I think it's safe to say the XC90 looks far superior to the Ascent even with the chrome. Unfortunately the Ascent "Onyx" (blacked out) trim doesn't come with 8 seats (a requirement to allow half the 3rd row folded down with 4 kids in the car), so it's not an option for us.

I will say our Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Minivan in "S" trim looks pretty dang nice, especially for a minivan!
View attachment 158497



Cost:
In the grand scheme of things, the overall cost is basically equal (a couple hundred more per year on the Volvo) thanks to current gas prices and our financial situation (tax credits, trade in values, etc, etc). I tend to overthink things and made a spreadsheet showing cost of ownership year by year for 10 years and found the XC90 and Ascent are pretty even for the first few years (using the info I have). The XC90 becomes more expensive years 4 and 5 due to the higher cost of the vehicle and the loan, then less expensive after that every year... Assuming gas continues at $5/gallon minimum (we pay about $6 right now). The cost isn't really that big of a deal, but still factored into the equation. I think the loan difference for us between the Ascent and XC90 would be about $23k more for the XC90.

So the question I've been asking myself, is the XC90 worth that extra $23k? Safety, features, fun, AWD/capability, reliability, aesthetics, comfort, confidence inspiring, etc.

While being a Subaru fan, truthfully I've only ever owned 1 Subaru (my 2004 WRX Wagon) and it's very basic in terms of features (manual transmission, manual HVAC, etc), but it's given us 241k trouble free miles, it's very fun to drive, and still drives like new despite me driving it hard every time I'm behind the wheel. Can Volvo do the same? I'd like to keep our next car for at least 200k miles.

EDIT: I wanted to add one more thing. In early 2021 our Pacifica had 6k miles on it and we took a family trip from Seattle area down to Palm Springs, CA. However, 700 miles into the trip the van died, complete transmission failure and left my family and I stranded in the middle of nowhere (80 mile tow trip!). It spent 2 months at a dealership 700 miles from home. 1 week after getting the van back the bolts literally fell out of the front-right control arm (and loose on front left) causing damage, which could have been extremely dangerous (it steered in random directions despite steering input, again with my whole family in it). So 1 week after getting it back from the transmission issue it was towed again right back to the dealership for another month. Then this year it spent another month at dealership service for various issues (dead heater, various suspension problems, some electronic issues, etc). We bought it for family trips and family hauling and it simply can't do it safely, let alone reliably. Any cost and time saving benefits we got by using it as a plug-in hybrid were completely offset by all the problems it has given us.

In contrast, 2 weeks ago my Dad and I drove his 2010 Subaru Forester over 3,000 miles in 6 days from Gettysburg, PA to Seattle area and had zero issues.

I want a vehicle that can do cross country tips without issue as well. Not being familiar with Volvo's, any feedback on taking one for a long distance trip would be great!

Our XC90 has done several cross country trips and it’s been problem free. I live in Bellevue, and we’ve travelled to yellowstone, LA and AZ, and numerous trips to vancouver BC. It’s a joy to drive for a SUV this size.

 

[jtriebe]

We've owned two Volvo's a 2017 XC90 T6 and now a 2022.5 XC90 Recharge Extended Range. We loved the 2017 and put on over 53,000 trouble free miles, including annual trips of 4,000 to 7,000 miles. We got the 2022.5 car because we wanted to reduce our fuel consumption (our old car averaged between 22 and 23 mpg overall). I'm delighted to say we love the new car. Not only is there more power, but it is quieter. In addition, and more importantly, with over 4400 miles on the new car, including 3,000 miles in two long, multi-day trips without being able to recharge at night, our overall average fuel economy is over 33 mpg. I've very pleased with that.🙂

 

[Stickygreen]

I have three suggestions, none of which are the Subaru.

1.If you have a good Volvo dealer nearby, go for the new t8 ER but expect to have some issues along the way. Make sure you drive an air suspended car before deciding to go with standard…it really makes the car feel much more upscale

2. buy a cpo 2019 or newer xc90 t6 inscription, add the 10yr/unlimited mile warranty extension, and drive the hell out of it (what we did/are doing)

3. buy a Mazda CX-9…it’s a little smaller inside but a whole lot more fun to drive than any sub-100k 7 seat SUV. We almost went this route but found our perfect cpo xc90 and couldn’t resist. If I recall correctly, the sweet spot is the 2019 cx9 signature…last/year the top trim model was available with second row bench.

 

[Wayne T5]

3. buy a Mazda CX-9…it’s a little smaller inside but a whole lot more fun to drive than any sub-100k 7 seat SUV. We almost went this route but found our perfect cpo xc90 and couldn’t resist. If I recall correctly, the sweet spot is the 2019 cx9 signature…last/year the top trim model was available with second row bench.

I had a '18 CX-9 GT - loved that car. It's a little dated now but when it was released Mazda really had that car punching above its' weight class. I've had almost as many Mazda's as Volvo's.

Probably the most competitive segment in the business - there are so many really good options out there.

 

[Landsharkk]

I have three suggestions, none of which are the Subaru.

1.If you have a good Volvo dealer nearby, go for the new t8 ER but expect to have some issues along the way. Make sure you drive an air suspended car before deciding to go with standard…it really makes the car feel much more upscale

2. buy a cpo 2019 or newer xc90 t6 inscription, add the 10yr/unlimited mile warranty extension, and drive the hell out of it (what we did/are doing)

3. buy a Mazda CX-9…it’s a little smaller inside but a whole lot more fun to drive than any sub-100k 7 seat SUV. We almost went this route but found our perfect cpo xc90 and couldn’t resist. If I recall correctly, the sweet spot is the 2019 cx9 signature…last/year the top trim model was available with second row bench.

The CX9 is an interesting idea, but frustrating to build. I can't get the configuration I want. I can get black, but only in certain trims...and then I can get a hitch, but only in the lower trims. It's impossible to get the features/color/trim I want with the CX9.

There are 3 Volvo dealerships near me. Seattle, Bellevue, and Tacoma. I have no idea which of those is the best to work with. I've talked to both Bellevue and Tacoma briefly, and Tacoma dealership seemed more friendly and attentive. But again, I've got zero experience with Volvo.

 

[turbothrusters]

first time Volvo owner here with a 22.5 XC90 ER Inscription Expression without air suspension. We have just over 1,000 miles now and it is a true pleasure to drive. Getting well over the 35 miles in Pure, in Hybrid mode I have been getting between 49 and 60 mpg. Right now, overall, I am inching towards 100mpg - crazy for a SUV this size! It handles well, and since adding the Polestar tower brace, I can feel the road more too. The acceleration is crazy, especially if you have it in Performance and keeping in B1. The torque just keeps on coming at all RPM’s it seems. I’ve hit 100mpg without realizing it while passing traffic. I cannot speak for the Accent, but the Volvo is an amazing machine and you will enjoy every minute of it. I strongly suggest the HK audio upgrade and the Advanced Package. The 360 camera has come in handy many times already. The HK system sounds GREAT! Also wanted to point out that the XC90 is built like a tank!

 

[kevintinple]

first time Volvo owner here with a 22.5 XC90 ER Inscription Expression without air suspension. We have just over 1,000 miles now and it is a true pleasure to drive. Getting well over the 35 miles in Pure, in Hybrid mode I have been getting between 49 and 60 mpg. Right now, overall, I am inching towards 100mpg - crazy for a SUV this size! It handles well, and since adding the Polestar tower brace, I can feel the road more too. The acceleration is crazy, especially if you have it in Performance and keeping in B1. The torque just keeps on coming at all RPM’s it seems. I’ve hit 100mpg without realizing it while passing traffic. I cannot speak for the Accent, but the Volvo is an amazing machine and you will enjoy every minute of it. I strongly suggest the HK audio upgrade and the Advanced Package. The 360 camera has come in handy many times already. The HK system sounds GREAT! Also wanted to point out that the XC90 is built like a tank!

Speaking of safety, my wife had a head on collision with a Tesla Model Y in a parking lot earlier this year. The Model Y's front end was destroyed, fender all bent up and sensors all damaged. And my XC90 only has a small dent above license plate, a brand new OEM factory painted front bumper fixed it, it doesn't even need a camera calibration. There's simply no comparison.

 

[rsfpc05]

I would not model the XC90 to have lower costs after years 4-5 vs the ascent UNLESS you’re buying the extended warranty. I won’t model gas staying at these prices either for length of your ownwrship

$23k isn’t Pennies to a lot of folks.

lastly, the T8 can’t be a cross country vehicle with no issues because there is no spare tire and I doubt you want to take up cargo space to store one. Flats happen and securing a 20/21” tire on extremely quick notice could be very hard.

 

[rfkuehn]

If you have option to wait, upcoming Mazda CX-90 (how original) and Toyota Grand Highlander/Lexus TX might be worth a look. Latter will offer conventional hybrids, likely PHEVs too.

Subaru is strictly pure ICE which would strike it from my list, personally.

 

[Pioneer4x4]

Also, personally, I really, really like the look of the new Genesis EV60, if going full EV, but offroady SUV=Jeep for me. I have been in an XC90, and really liked it, but like the Cadillac SRXs and XT5 I had, I consider them more "Crossover". Nothing at all against them, I loved them all, just not the same purpose.

 

[Landsharkk]

Anyone know if the 2023 XC90 will have true Level 2 charging speeds? I've read that the current one only charges at about 3.3kW , which is half of Level 2 speeds (half of what my current PHEV charges at ,which is closer to 6.5kW). I was surprised to learn of such slow charging and figured they'd increase that to regular Level 2 speeds considering the increase in battery size.

I would not model the XC90 to have lower costs after years 4-5 vs the ascent UNLESS you’re buying the extended warranty. I won’t model gas staying at these prices either for length of your ownwrship

$23k isn’t Pennies to a lot of folks.

lastly, the T8 can’t be a cross country vehicle with no issues because there is no spare tire and I doubt you want to take up cargo space to store one. Flats happen and securing a 20/21” tire on extremely quick notice could be very hard.

I agree with the extended warranty, that's something I usually buy with my vehicles.

I'm having my doubts about the price of gas coming down far enough (if at all). My cost model was based on $5/gallon, but we are currently paying $6/gal, so even my cost estimates were low compared to reality. In order for the Subaru Ascent to be noticeably comparable (in fuel costs) to drive the price of gas would have to be down near $3.

I was hoping Subaru would announce at least a hybrid version of the Ascent for 2023, but they did not. They do have the Solterra (full EV) announced for 2023 and the hybrid Crosstrek has been available for a few years now, but seem to be very slow in electrifying their vehicles.

 

[keerthi2006]

What is the cost of a maintenance service for 40k, 50, and 60k?
I'm trying to see if purchasing Steingold maintenance package is worth it.

 

[westseattleite]

The CX9 is an interesting idea, but frustrating to build. I can't get the configuration I want. I can get black, but only in certain trims...and then I can get a hitch, but only in the lower trims. It's impossible to get the features/color/trim I want with the CX9.

There are 3 Volvo dealerships near me. Seattle, Bellevue, and Tacoma. I have no idea which of those is the best to work with. I've talked to both Bellevue and Tacoma briefly, and Tacoma dealership seemed more friendly and attentive. But again, I've got zero experience with Volvo.

Seattle and Bellevue are both owned by Swickard, so experience is similar. I bought both my XC90's from the Seattle dealership, dealt with Tom the sales manager. Good experiences both times. The downside is the service department. It's small and antiquated, but they do a good job if you have the time to wait. I've never had any issues getting a loaner car although for scheduled service you're usually booked out at least a couple of weeks. If you're in the South end, give Tacoma a shot. If in the North end try Sandberg in Lynnwood. I don't know anything about any of the dealerships other than Seattle. I can say that Seattle does seem to have more inventory and can probably help more with finding the exact car you want.