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Hi All,

Anyone have any experience driving a t8 without an outlet to plug in? I live in a condo where i dont have access to an outlet.

I ask, because right now some of the fully loaded T8s around where I live are more affordable than equally optioned out T6s. Quite an unusual scenario, as I'd expect the T8 to always be more expensive.

Will you not be able to generate the full 90 hp from the electric engine without access to an outlet? With the car constantly charging the battery during driving. Would the net MPG be similar to a t6?

Thanks,
 

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Freeway MPG is similar to a T6. City MPG could be better. You can control the charging by engine using the charge and hold mode.

Sent from my moto g power (XT2041DL) using Tapatalk
 

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right now some of the fully loaded T8s around where I live are more affordable than equally optioned out T6s. Quite an unusual scenario, as I'd expect the T8 to always be more expensive.
As the models age, I'd expect the T8 "premium" to diminish and even go negative. The T8 has all the parts of the T6 plus extra. EV drivetrain components tend to be more reliable than ICE components, but they aren't perfect, and Volvo isn't actually substituting ICE for EV, but rather adding them together. The risk of failure increases and the potential repair cost also increases. Outside of warranty, that's a concern, and I'd expect pricing to reflect that uncertainty.

Will you not be able to generate the full 90 hp from the electric engine without access to an outlet? With the car constantly charging the battery during driving. Would the net MPG be similar to a t6?
The ICE engine can partially charge the battery, similar to a traditional hybrid. So in short-bursts you'll have access to the same power. That power is not endless, however. For most owners, that isn't a big deal, as even if accelerate aggressively from a stop you'll probably reach cruising speed and won't be demanding 100% engine power indefinitely. Energy is not free, however, so while the ICE is recharging the battery your economy will dip. Regenerative braking hopefully helps bridge that gap to minimize impact.

If you used a T8, long term, without ever plugging in then I'd expect the fuel economy average to be closer to a T6, but probably a couple MPG higher. FuelEconomy.gov actually provides this information and says it's 26mpg combined city/highway.
 

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If you can't charge, don't purchase a PHEV. Buy the new B5/B6 with the mild hybrid.
T8 is still much faster (if not more quiet because low charging) than B5/B6. If same price, why not.
 
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If you can't charge, don't purchase a PHEV. Buy the new B5/B6 with the mild hybrid.
I agree. There's a significant environmental toll to carrying around 1000 pounds of batteries that aren't being used. You get slightly better gas mileage than the gas only or mild hybrid engines, but the cost to extract and mine a bunch of chemicals isn't factored into that calculation. The whole point of PHEV is to run then on electric only as much as is practical.
 

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I agree. There's a significant environmental toll to carrying around 1000 pounds of batteries that aren't being used. You get slightly better gas mileage than the gas only or mild hybrid engines, but the cost to extract and mine a bunch of chemicals isn't factored into that calculation. The whole point of PHEV is to run then on electric only as much as is practical.
Whatever car it is, driving a car without any passenger is not helpful to environment at all. So why not take bus, or ride bike. :)
 

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T8 is still much faster (if not more quiet because low charging) than B5/B6. If same price, why not.
1) You only need a ~1 kWh battery if you never charge, as Min80 pointed out (carbon footprint).
2) No real fuel economy benefit (1 - 2 mpg).
3) Additional weight with no ROI.
4) Additional complexity/reliability issues with no ROI.
5) Limited preconditioning (low SoC).
6) No "quiet" EV driving.
7) ...

I'd say the same thing if you purchased an F250 and rarely haul/tow anything.
 

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The whole point of PHEV is to run then on electric only as much as is practical.
Well, the whole point to some. I bought a T8 for the extra torque and 0-60 because it adds a little more fun to a soccer mom van. I charge it every day but buying it for the performance is just as valid as buying it for the environment, IMO.

2) No real fuel economy benefit (1 - 2 mpg).
3) Additional weight with no ROI.
I've seen weight come up a few times in this thread but the only downside to weight is MPG. Points 2 and 3 cancel each other out: you don't take any negatives from the weight and you gain 1-2 MPG for it (an ROI). It seems moot to me. Maybe subjectively worse handling with the weight? But on an SUV, the weight up the spine can help it feel more grounded so YMMV.
 

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@chawklet Has this been any help to you?

I know charge at home is probably the most affordable, but ...
Do you work some place where you could charge?
Can you use a public charge station where you shop or eat meals (two birds, one stone)?
 
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I recently bought a 2017 XC90 T8 and live in manhattan which means I have no place to charge it at home.

I wondered the same as you when I was shopping but it turns out that even without charging I get tons of use out of the electric drive system, mostly because I enable charge mode on the highway when we leave the city on weekends (our primary use of the car) which lets me switch to electric once we arrive back in the city. I also charge often when visiting destinations that have EV charging (a growing list of places... I even charged up while shopping in Riverhead last weekend).

Most of the mpg hit I previously would take in my non-PHEV car was stop-and-go traffic on the highway and slow traffic around manhattan, especially when hunting for street parking. Now, the T8's battery eats through those wonderfully (even on 0 charge the battery can be used for short bursts in stop/go traffic where you're constantly doing 0mph-5mph-0mph).

Checking my Volvo app my current combined city/highway MPG is 29.7mpg which is incredible for such a big vehicle with a home base in the city.
 

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Without charging I get tons of use out of the electric drive system, mostly because I enable charge mode on the highway...
That's less efficient than not charging. You're burning gasoline at ~20% efficiency (~30% ICE efficiency minus generator/inverter losses) to charge your battery. 🙃
 

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Thanks for the replies all!

I definitely wouldnt be able to utilize the car to the fullest it would seem. The t8 wasnt even on my radar as i expected the price to be significantly more than preowned t6s in my area. Just a surprise to me to find some similarly loaded for less than some t6s.

There are a lot of shopping areas that have ev charging now, even a gas station about 1 minute drive away. The problem is that I wouldn't want to go out of my way to charge, and as it would seem. If you don't plug in regularly, its probably not the best bet. That and plug-in EV, turbo, supercharger. A lot can go wrong? I've also heard to never have this car out of warranty so for now I think the t8 is off the list. Im looking at mostly inscriptions and r designs T6s only now.
 

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That's less efficient than not charging. You're burning gasoline at ~20% efficiency (~30% ICE efficiency minus generator/inverter losses) to charge your battery. 🙃
Yeah I’ve seen those discussions from others and it’s just not true for me. Maybe it’s because I’m dealing with a major high traffic city center and extensive stop go traffic?

I’ve compared both approaches many times (I drive the same routes often). Not charging while on the highway = extensive ICE use in the city = huge impact on overall mpg. The mpg drag drag on the engine while charging at 75+ mph is negligible in comparison.

This may be unique to NYC where it can easily take me over 1hr to go 10miles on final approach to the city depending on time of day.
 

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Yeah I’ve seen those discussions from others and it’s just not true for me.
To be clear, it is still true. You can't beat physics. It's a net loss to charge from the ICE vs an EV charger.

But in your case it is also true that charging the battery -- even in the most inefficient way possible -- improves your overall MPG by having charge available in stop/go traffic in the city. Obviously your overall MPG would probably be far better if you could charge an EV (because you wouldn't take the ICE charge hit) but you're still not losing. I'm surprised that the battery capacity is that much better MPG in the city that it could make up for the ICE loss when the XC60 has engine auto/start stop, but it is what it is I guess.
 

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To be clear, it is still true. You can't beat physics. It's a net loss to charge from the ICE vs an EV charger.
Yeah it’s a net loss if the environments of use are the same but seems to be a net gain if you can charge when the ICE is most efficient and keep that ICE off for torque-intensive moments… or in my case a long period of repetitive torque-intensive moments… when it’s least efficient (hello, 1hr of start stop circling the block looking for parking).

It would be fun to log this data and figure out where the inflection point is. I kind of intuitively feel like the electric engine isn’t worth using if charged this way for any sustained movement over like 20mph. Wonder if I can get an OBDII recorder for it to find out?

One day maybe NYC will add curb chargers, but it looks like what they’ve done so far uses charge ports that don’t fit the PHEVs (and they charge crazy fees to plug into them) :-(.
 

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Yeah it’s a net loss if the environments of use are the same but seems to be a net gain if you can charge when the ICE is most efficient and keep that ICE off for torque-intensive moments… or in my case a long period of repetitive torque-intensive moments… when it’s least efficient (hello, 1hr of start stop circling the block looking for parking).

It would be fun to log this data and figure out where the inflection point is. I kind of intuitively feel like the electric engine isn’t worth using if charged this way for any sustained movement over like 20mph. Wonder if I can get an OBDII recorder for it to find out?

One day maybe NYC will add curb chargers, but it looks like what they’ve done so far uses charge ports that don’t fit the PHEVs (and they charge crazy fees to plug into them) :-(.
I drive in Manhattan several times. I concur with your assessment. While driving and using engine to charge battery on highway then electric motoring in city is not efficient, it is still overall more efficient than running ICE in city traffic with stop and go lights. If you are hitting 29+ MPG overall you are way ahead of any T6 in the same situation. You are at same efficiency as a similar generation MY (2016) Highlander and Lexus RX hybrid. I had loaner T6 and it would come in at ~15-19mpg in city traffic and overall 25+ MPG.
 
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