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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't post here much, try to figure things out myself, but this one has me stumped.
My wife's 2013 XC-90 AWD 3.2, 126,000 miles, has developed a transmission shudder when shifting into 3rd and 4th gear during light acceleration, between 1500 and 2000 rpms and between 25 and 35 mph.
During moderate to hard acceleration or shifting it manually through the gears it does not shudder. The car will also have rpm waiver when in 3rd or 4th gear when driving in town at speeds between 30 and 40 mph at 1500 to 2000 rpms. It will waiver about 300 rpms.

I changed the trans fluid 10,000 miles ago (at about 116,000 miles) which is when the shuddering started. I changed it again last week and with only 10K on the fluid and it came out extremely dirty. Fluid used both times was Valvoline High Mileage LV, which was spec for this car (which uses the Type WS not Type IV).

Even though the shuddering started with the first fluid change, the rest of the shifting and the way the transmission acted was much better, especially under brisk acceleration. I figured a short interval fluid change would finish flushing out the old fluid would fix the problem. After 1100 miles over the past 5 days on a trip, the shuddering is a little better but not by much and the wavering is still present.

I have heard the torque converters are an issue on some of these, but somehow I can not believe its the converter since this was brought on by a fluid change.


Any and all ideas, and advise or fixes are welcome

Thank you!
 

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I use Valvoline Maxlife in my fleet too.
For the XC90 though, I used Toyota Type WS and haven't had any problems.
I got it basically the same price as the case break Valvoline.
If I had to nitpick, the 1-2 shift on the XC90 is sloppier than the XC60 (which I had the firmware update and re-learned 3 years into ownership).
When I did my XC90 fluid (when warranty ended) at 132k km, the fluid was very clean.

If I were in your shoes, I'd try a drain and fill with Type WS to set a baseline "basically OEM fluid", see if it fixes it... if not then do a re-learn.
There's also a transmit fluid change reset you should do on your transmission if you have VIDA+DiCE
Our 2nd gen transmissions have a revised mechanical design, fluid and firmware vs the 1st gen transmissions.
There's also been a few firmware updates over the years for shifting oddities (they did improve the XC60).
 

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Agreed, you should try to drain and fill with a Type WS, not a multi-vehicle fluid. That is the first step. I searched and don't see a specific Valvoline "high mileage LV" transmission fluid, so I am assuming you are using the MaxLife Dex/Merc Mercon LV. https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/automatic-transmission-products

I have used the MaxLife in other European cars and they did not respond well. Ironically, loooking at the label of the MaxLife Dex/Merc Mercon LV, it also says it is spec'd for Type IV. Toyota owners that have the Type WS spec use MaxLife because they like it has a higher high temp viscosity. The Toyota trucks especially respond well. The Aisin transmission in Volvo is different in how it responds.

For the Volvo 2013+ using a Type WS fluid, it should be a specific Type WS spec fluid that is used in the transmissions.

Here are some options:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-auto-trans-oil-1-liter-aisin-31256774 Aisin WS
https://www.amazon.com/Idemitsu-TLS...emitsu+tls-lv&qid=1567748785&s=gateway&sr=8-2 Idemitsu TLS-LV(WS)
https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-00289...rds=toyota+WS&qid=1567748520&s=gateway&sr=8-1 Toyota ATF WS
 

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FWIW, Valvoline Maxlife took away the even 3309 certification, so it doesn't belong in any Volvo.

-Ryan
 

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FWIW, Valvoline Maxlife took away the even 3309 certification, so it doesn't belong in any Volvo.

-Ryan
I'm not sure what "even 3309 certification" means, but, according to the current Product Information sheet on the Valvoline web site it is suitable for use in "JWS 3309 (Aisin Warner)" and "Volvo 1161512, 1161540, STD 1273.41, 97340".
 

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I'm not sure what "even 3309 certification" means, but, according to the current Product Information sheet on the Valvoline web site it is suitable for use in "JWS 3309 (Aisin Warner)" and "Volvo 1161512, 1161540, STD 1273.41, 97340".
Was wondering if this was a joke. The multi-vehicle fluids are not spec-specific, so in a complicated transmission with friction discs, hydraulics, solenoids, and programming, the resulting performance will be off. It also appears the Dex/Merc Mercon LV is being superseded by just one MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF. Here is the list of what it says it is suitable in and the spec sheet: https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

That is a lot of different transmission fluids Valvoline is claiming its fluid is suitable for as a replacement. Now let's look at a few specific properties (Type WS is equivalent to JWS 3324):

Viscosity @100C in cSt: 5.91 (MaxLife), 5.3 (Mobil 3324), 5.338 (Beck Arney Type WS) -Notice how Maxlife is thicker, which could affect the line pressure, shifting, etc., WS spec appears to be 5.3
Viscosity @40C in cSt: 28.82 (MaxLife), 23 (Mobil 3324), 23.12 (Beck Arney Type WS) -Maxlife has a higher viscosity for lower temp 40C, WS spec appears to be 23
Viscosity Index: 156 (MaxLife), 173 (Mobile 3324), 177 (Beck Arney Type WS) -The MaxLife has a much lower viscosity index and viscosity will be affected by temperature more (less consistent), WS spec appears to be 170+

Just like others who may have put Type IV (3309) fluid when it should be Type WS fluid, the MaxLife fluid is too thick as a replacement for WS. The viscosity index is much much lower too, so the fluid is less consistent with temperature variations. I also would not put MaxLife in the Aisin transmission because MaxLife does have extra detergents, which means it will (more) quickly dislodge carbon and dirt, which could affect everything from the friction discs, line pressure, to fluid temperature. I could imagine all that carbon and dirt changing the friction, causing more wear or slip. There are many more reasons and specs to consider, like friction modifiers and density.

Data references:
http://www.beckarnley.com/content/d...data-sheets/ATF Type WS Data Sheet_031218.pdf
https://www.mobil.com/english-cn/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/glxxmobil-atf-3324
 

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Let the law suits commence!
 

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i remember comparing bunch of 3309 fluids, and even amongst them they had different viscosity... at the end I went for Mobil 3309 instead of original Volvo fluid as the price difference was around 6x.
We can also get Toyota Type-IV here as well, but it was charged at premium also...
 

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i remember comparing bunch of 3309 fluids, and even amongst them they had different viscosity... at the end I went for Mobil 3309 instead of original Volvo fluid as the price difference was around 6x.
We can also get Toyota Type-IV here as well, but it was charged at premium also...
For B8444S the fluid never changes, it's JWS3309. Great as a point of perspective (V8 owners, now you know) but this thread is about a 2013 3.2 with the TF-80SC Gen2 and the BOT341/JWS3324/WS-1 spec fluid.


The post on fluid shift and the TF-80SC gen2 was pretty well documented by the author or so I thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ChitownV,
I appreciate your knowledge and advice. I have Idemitsu Type TLS-LV (WS) available locally. I will use this unless you advise otherwise.

For the record, the last six of the VIN for my '13 XC90 is 658431, which all sources I can find indicate a JWS 3324 fluid or a Type WS spec fluid. I have the B6324S5 engine and the TF-80SC tranny.

It has been confusing since the owners manual states a JWS 3309 fluid for the tranny.......

Thank you for all the advise and assistance!

I just hope the 10K or so miles since using the Valvoline product has not hurt the tranny.....I'll keep you posted

Brian
 

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I personally have not used Idemitsu, but a few others in this forum have, albeit for Type IV. For now and to start getting rid of the MaxLife fluid, it should work. Amazon has a 5 quart for a reasonable price with Prime.

I wish I had more experience with different types of WS fluid to help. If it were my vehicle, I would probably go with either Aisin or Toyota first since they are the transmission and auto manufacturers. Aisin is $8/qt from FCP in Connecticut and I am assuming shipping is 1-2 days since you are in NY.
 

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We've been through this before. TJ 16773 addresses drivetrain fluids

The break depends on model as well as year. All models except the XC90 changed in MY2011. The XC90 stays with 3309 until MY 2013. There's a note in the 2012 version of the TJ: "NOTE! THIS DOCUMENT SUPERSEDES THE PREVIOUS TECHNICAL JOURNAL 16773 DATED 01-23-2009. AW-1 should be used in the Model Year (MY) 2013- XC90."

I just checked, and it appears this TJ is still current.

The most recent version of the TJ, March 2014, Version 5, reiterates that 3309 is to be used in the XC90 up to MY2013 and AW-1 thereafter.

So, according to the TJ, if it's an XC90 and it's 2012 or earlier then 3309 is the correct fluid, irrespective of chassis number.
 

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Since the end of 2018, I think all the US Volvo internet parts resellers use the same basic portal with a customized front end. See one example-

https://parts.volvocarslisle.com/a/...5699124/Automatic-transmission/GR-372741.html

In the current parts list for the XC90, there are 2 OE distinct part numbers for fluids with the TF-80SC separated by chassis 568000 (total 4PNs, 2 sizes of containers). If you back up from this link and change MY you'll see the information remains consistent from 2007 to 2013 (2014 MY is listed but I did not see any fluid listed on the drawing. I might have missed something).

If this information is not correct, then it's a Volvo issue but both 2011D and 2014A versions of VIDA note exactly the same thing, fluid break starting at chassis 568001, which by no coincidence aligns with the exchange transmission PN change. I agree it's a little muddy on which vehicle model year the break occurs, I thought we discussed this on one of the original threads to try and get a sense of MY to chassis and never got too far.

I don't disagree that the TNN and the OE parts lists seem to be at odds with each other. Might be an interesting scenario, tech asks for one thing, parts person provides another.
 

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Technical Journals are the easiest way to update information and the easiest to keep up to date. I can't see how anything else could be accepted as the most up to date (and, hopefully, most correct) information.

Why the exception for the XC90? Maybe there was a reason they wanted to use up the remaining Gen 1 (if you will) trannys on the XC90 line and not somewhere else. Or, maybe they were already there...
 

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I recently completed 150,000 miles service -- more here https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=90085.

It was easy for me to use Volvo's fluid to refill (1-gallon jug), followed by a fluid level procedure, and then fluid counter reset. It is working fine.
I'll flat out say it. With only 8 total posts at the time of this reply, why are you linking your own post from another board here? Why don't you post helpful info on this thread itself since it is a different topic than yours? Nothing wrong with the other sites, but this is almost spam-ish or anti-social.

BTW, you didn't read this thread in its entirety. The main issue is the type of fluid. Fluid has already been changed.
 

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I've always thought of MVS and Swedespeed as complimentary and I cross post on a regular basis (same user name on SS and MVS since 2006). I've never found it to be an issue so long as the person posting is not doing it maliciously or for commercial intent. MVS is great for Volvo tips and tricks, they have a few folks who do this stuff for a living and are willing to provide advice.

Person was just trying to put a perspective on the job I thought... I'll try and do a better job myself of sticking to the subject, easy enough to digress on some of these threads, point received.

** Point of perspective- the person (xHeart) who posted has over 2,500 posts on MVS and has been a member over there for 8 years.
 

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Just to finish my butting in, refer back to post #3- you have the wrong fluid in your vehicle, get it out and get a WS fluid commonly used by others on this forum put back in.

**I didn't want to suggest any method but the more I think about, the more I would want to get it all out since you know it's not correct and it's not working.
At 110k miles, it's NOT too old of a transmission to prevent a full exchange using the pump out method and I don't know what you have to gain by a drain/fill since whatever's wrong since you put the wrong fluid in will be wrong at least as long as you have it in.
I've always enjoyed Tim Thurber's link for a process, it's as good as anyone else- http://www.timthurber.com/volvo-xc90-3-2-transmission-flush-drainfill-tf-80sc-6-speed/ , he uses the IPD kit which is great but if you check a few posts you can make one up a little cheaper. Clips like to break if you're not gentle, and make sure you do the level check when you're done (don't guess unless you have to).

TF80 takes a little over 8 quarts, were it me I would do 16 total with some short driving in between to get a really good exchange. If indeed there's damage, it's already been done so do the correct fluids to the correct level and let things lie for a bit to adapt and see what you're left with.

Get the vehicle read by something that knows Volvo errors (like TCM-xxxx) if possible, you might have some codes as well and this could help track the flare.

For sure check all of your engine mounts (if you have not done so already), a worn torque rod on this motor can absolutely make things feel worse.

Good luck, hope everything gets back to normal.
 

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I've always thought of MVS and Swedespeed as complimentary and I cross post on a regular basis (same user name on SS and MVS since 2006). I've never found it to be an issue so long as the person posting is not doing it maliciously or for commercial intent. MVS is great for Volvo tips and tricks, they have a few folks who do this stuff for a living and are willing to provide advice.

Person was just trying to put a perspective on the job I thought... I'll try and do a better job myself of sticking to the subject, easy enough to digress on some of these threads, point received.

** Point of perspective- the person (xHeart) who posted has over 2,500 posts on MVS and has been a member over there for 8 years.
Like I stated, nothing wrong with the other sites. I've also linked other forums here. However, since the same link to his own thread on MVS was posted on another thread here, at the same time, and there wasn't a reference to what was actually being discussed in this thread, it felt spam-ish. The OP already changed fluid and changing fluid for maintenance was not the topic being discussed. I would have thought for a poster to have over 2,500 posts on another forum that they would at least understand to read the thread and not just the title before posting.

As far as my post #3 here, drain and fill, perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant to drain the MaxLife fluid out and fill with new WS fluid, even if that is through the cooler line method. Perhaps a point of perspective on the wording here. I am sure the OP has his procedure set since he has done it twice already. Even with a cooler line method, this process should be done at least twice (within a few hundred to a few thousand miles between) to remove as much of the MaxLife fluid, old WS fluid, and additional carbon/dirt/friction material that may have been removed by the MaxLife detergents. However, the most important thing is to start removing MaxLife and start adding WS fluid back in, whatever method may work for the OP.
 
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