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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have lurked in the shadows of this forum and having been impressed by insightful advice and feedback of the posters, I have decided to ask about an issue that has been bugging me.

Several months ago I leased a 2012 s60 T6 awd which came very nicely loaded with options (including the Four-C option). The car came with the 17-inch rims and tires and had a couple of
thousand miles on the odo (demo) before I took posession of it. I must say that I really like the car and it is a pleasure to drive. However, there seems to be some sort of alignment issue that the dealer can't seem to resolve after multiple visits and I am very hesitant to keep bringing it back (because they seem to have tried aligning it several times already) and I am starting to feel like I am pestering them.

Here's the story:

Initially the car had a strong pull to the car and upon returning it to them dealership, they corrected the issue (roation and alignment and possibly balancing). Approximately 3-4 weeks later the pull appeared to return only this time to the left. Once again the car was returned and they graciously re-aligned in and suspected a bad tire so two brand new tires were placed in the front. The car seemed to track ok, but nothing like previous volvos I've had. However, approximately 3-4 weeks later, the left pull started to become more and more noticeable, espeically with more frequent highway driving. Over the course of two more weeks, the pull was so extreme to the left that driving any 3 lanes of the highway, i could not let go of the wheel for a split second or the car would change all three lanes within 3 seconds, and I shudder to think of the jersey barrier lane switch beyond that (joke). The car was returned to the dealer again, they acknowledged the serious pull and again realigned it. Since that time, the pull seemed to remain when driving in the left-most lane of the highway, however, it tracked ok in all other lanes of the highway, so I did not make an issue of it. Now four weeks later, the left pull seems to creep in when traveling in the second left-most lane and I have a feeling the same issue will reappear within the next few weeks across all lanes.

I must say, the car is only driven by me daily, and a combination of highway and main street roads. However, throughout this time, I have not hit a single pothole as I am very careful with my cars and try hard to avoid road problems. Also, the roads I drive daily are generally in good shape and I am familiar with any trouble spots so I try to avoid them. Now the issue is, I really do love the car, but it is becoming less enjoyable driving it as the issue keeps recurring and worsening. I also feel like a nut to keep returning the car, but it seems there is some insidious pattern to this. Especially so, since they insist the car coming out of alignment can only be due to hiting major potholes, of which I haven't hit over the course of the multiple recurrences of this issue.

Apologize for long-winded question, but I hope someone can give me some advice on this so I can hopefully resolve this once and for all. The dealer has been great at trying to deal with the issue and haven't charged me yet. However, I am acutely aware that this is annoying to them and I may be consting them money with this issue. In addition, its very inconvenient for me to keep returning the car as I don't live close to the dealership anymore, hence there is absolutely no incentive to keep bothering them with this other than the hope of the car tracking semi-ok. I look forward to hearing from anyone, who may have experienced a similar issue or has some idea of it.

I worry that something is constantly loose that the dealer is missing despite their best efforts (as far as I can see) and it may pose a driving hazard at some point.

Much thanks in advance!
 

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You should never feel like you are "pestering" the dealer. They are there to resolve problems and are paid by Volvo to do so! Don't worry, they aren't working for free and each time you come in they are billing Volvo.

If they cannot solve the problem it might be worth calling Volvo customer care.
 

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The first thing that jumped out at me was that your T6 has 17" wheels...it should have 18" wheels unless they swapped them out for smaller wheels as an option...but then that wouldn't make much sense to order a car with Four-C and smaller wheels. Does your car for sure have 17" wheels? I only ask because there might be some hidden reason that car has wheels that it shouldn't.

Other than that, have they looked into the AWD or the torque vectoring system? It's a stretch but who knows what could have been done in the first few thousand miles...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The first thing that jumped out at me was that your T6 has 17" wheels...it should have 18" wheels unless they swapped them out for smaller wheels as an option...but then that wouldn't make much sense to order a car with Four-C and smaller wheels. Does your car for sure have 17" wheels? I only ask because there might be some hidden reason that car has wheels that it shouldn't.

Other than that, have they looked into the AWD or the torque vectoring system? It's a stretch but who knows what could have been done in the first few thousand miles...
The car came with the optional 17" wheels as opposed to the 18" as far as I know and it was really because of the new england weather and preference of 17" for winter (at least according to the dealer). Could you elaborate on how the AWD/torque vectoring could affect this so I could have an idea of what to ask them for if I do bring it in?

Also, the 17" rims have the standard continental tires that seem to be common on those cars (although I don't know the exact make).

Thank you all for throwing out some ideas so far, much appreciated!
 

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As far as the AWD/TV, I have never actually heard of this happening and I am only basing this on an idea that it could possibly happen due to a malfunction in the system...but the car can send more power or apply brakes to certain wheels if others slip or during cornering. If the systems aren't working correctly, they could be doing those actions at inappropriate times, which could cause the car to appear to pull one way or another...but like I said, I'm not basing this on anything I've seen happen but more on some crazy theory of it being possible....

What I would be more suspicious about is the dealer ordering a car like that to begin with (17" wheels + four-c). It's not impossible that someone would want this setup, but it seems silly to me. The Four-C chassis lets you choose a softer ride when it's needed, and the car has AWD to begin with, making it great for snow and such. I may be over thinking it, but it might be worth probing the dealer about...who knows, maybe they took the 18" wheels off this car and swapped them for the wheels on a T5 to make a deal go through because the buyer wanted the bigger wheels. Those tires are narrower (dont know about the overall diameter) so they could possibly affect the alignment.
 

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As far as the AWD/TV, I have never actually heard of this happening and I am only basing this on an idea that it could possibly happen due to a malfunction in the system...but the car can send more power or apply brakes to certain wheels if others slip or during cornering. If the systems aren't working correctly, they could be doing those actions at inappropriate times, which could cause the car to appear to pull one way or another...but like I said, I'm not basing this on anything I've seen happen but more on some crazy theory of it being possible....

What I would be more suspicious about is the dealer ordering a car like that to begin with (17" wheels + four-c). It's not impossible that someone would want this setup, but it seems silly to me. The Four-C chassis lets you choose a softer ride when it's needed, and the car has AWD to begin with, making it great for snow and such. I may be over thinking it, but it might be worth probing the dealer about...who knows, maybe they took the 18" wheels off this car and swapped them for the wheels on a T5 to make a deal go through because the buyer wanted the bigger wheels. Those tires are narrower (dont know about the overall diameter) so they could possibly affect the alignment.
I really don't get what the problem is to have 17inch wheels and FOUR-C?! I have the exact same setup (T6, 17inch NJord wheels, 4c). I had to choose between 235/45 R17 NJORD and 235/40 R18 SLEIPNER and went with NJORD since I like it better....
 

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You bought yours based on the way it looks, right? There's nothing wrong with that because that's just a matter of taste...but when I think about getting the Four-C chassis, what comes to mind is the greater ability to control handeling and the suspension. In that case, wouldn't you want a larger wheel/lower profile tire combo? Would you still have purchased the 17" Njord if it were available in 18" as well?
 

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It could be a bad wheel, especially since rotating the tires caused a reversal of the pulling. I'd have them put on a new set of OEM wheels and tires and see if that resolves the problem. I would also suggest going with the standard 18's and then using a set of dedicated, mounted 17" snow tires for winter driving.
 

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Something is wrong. I can take my hands off the steering wheel at highway speeds and stay in the middle of the lane.

(By hands off, I mean letting go, fingers hovering just above the steering wheel, no traffic).
 

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I have lurked in the shadows of this forum and having been impressed by insightful advice and feedback of the posters, I have decided to ask about an issue that has been bugging me.

Several months ago I leased a 2012 s60 T6 awd which came very nicely loaded with options (including the Four-C option). The car came with the 17-inch rims and tires and had a couple of
thousand miles on the odo (demo) before I took posession of it. I must say that I really like the car and it is a pleasure to drive. However, there seems to be some sort of alignment issue that the dealer can't seem to resolve after multiple visits and I am very hesitant to keep bringing it back (because they seem to have tried aligning it several times already) and I am starting to feel like I am pestering them.

Here's the story:

Initially the car had a strong pull to the car and upon returning it to them dealership, they corrected the issue (roation and alignment and possibly balancing). Approximately 3-4 weeks later the pull appeared to return only this time to the left. Once again the car was returned and they graciously re-aligned in and suspected a bad tire so two brand new tires were placed in the front. The car seemed to track ok, but nothing like previous volvos I've had. However, approximately 3-4 weeks later, the left pull started to become more and more noticeable, espeically with more frequent highway driving. Over the course of two more weeks, the pull was so extreme to the left that driving any 3 lanes of the highway, i could not let go of the wheel for a split second or the car would change all three lanes within 3 seconds, and I shudder to think of the jersey barrier lane switch beyond that (joke). The car was returned to the dealer again, they acknowledged the serious pull and again realigned it. Since that time, the pull seemed to remain when driving in the left-most lane of the highway, however, it tracked ok in all other lanes of the highway, so I did not make an issue of it. Now four weeks later, the left pull seems to creep in when traveling in the second left-most lane and I have a feeling the same issue will reappear within the next few weeks across all lanes.

I must say, the car is only driven by me daily, and a combination of highway and main street roads. However, throughout this time, I have not hit a single pothole as I am very careful with my cars and try hard to avoid road problems. Also, the roads I drive daily are generally in good shape and I am familiar with any trouble spots so I try to avoid them. Now the issue is, I really do love the car, but it is becoming less enjoyable driving it as the issue keeps recurring and worsening. I also feel like a nut to keep returning the car, but it seems there is some insidious pattern to this. Especially so, since they insist the car coming out of alignment can only be due to hiting major potholes, of which I haven't hit over the course of the multiple recurrences of this issue.

Apologize for long-winded question, but I hope someone can give me some advice on this so I can hopefully resolve this once and for all. The dealer has been great at trying to deal with the issue and haven't charged me yet. However, I am acutely aware that this is annoying to them and I may be consting them money with this issue. In addition, its very inconvenient for me to keep returning the car as I don't live close to the dealership anymore, hence there is absolutely no incentive to keep bothering them with this other than the hope of the car tracking semi-ok. I look forward to hearing from anyone, who may have experienced a similar issue or has some idea of it.

I worry that something is constantly loose that the dealer is missing despite their best efforts (as far as I can see) and it may pose a driving hazard at some point.

Much thanks in advance!
If that car had a couple thousand miles on it, I am going to guess it was a Volvo buy back from a previous customer. Probably a bad car that a customer had and Volvo bought it back. The dealership then resold it. Just my .02 worth???
 

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You bought yours based on the way it looks, right? There's nothing wrong with that because that's just a matter of taste...but when I think about getting the Four-C chassis, what comes to mind is the greater ability to control handeling and the suspension. In that case, wouldn't you want a larger wheel/lower profile tire combo? Would you still have purchased the 17" Njord if it were available in 18" as well?
I still don't see the issue with 17inch and 4C here...

The tire is the same width and only 2mm smaller in diameter than the 18inch wheel.

Tire height for the 235/45/R17 = ( 2 * 235 * 0.45 + 17 inch) = 2 * 105.75 + 431.8 = 643.3 mm height
Tire height for the 235/40/R18 = ( 2 * 235 * 0.4 + 18 inch) = 2 * 94 + 457.2 = 645.2mm height

You mean to tell me that 2mm of difference in height is going to make *any* difference in handling / control?

(http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html)

The only difference between the two is the sidewall height which for the 18inch would make the ride worse over uneven terrain...

I very much enjoy the 4C on my 17inch NJORDs and would only buy larger wheels if I were to go to something like 245/40R18.
 

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It could be a bad wheel, especially since rotating the tires caused a reversal of the pulling. I'd have them put on a new set of OEM wheels and tires and see if that resolves the problem
+1
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't believe it was a buyback since the car had a clear title and was driven by someone we know at the dealership. Also, I doubt it was a buy back since I haven't had a single issue with it aside from the pulling (unless the pulling qualifies it for a buyback).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As I read everyone's helpful comments, I am starting to wonder whether it might have something to do with 'tramlining.' As I researched this more, I guess the ange of the tire can affect the direction the car wants to go into despite a straight alignment.

The other possibility I wonder about is in fact a bad wheel. One of the rims does have a small gouge in it, as if someone hit the curb just right, and it seems to be that the direction of the pull is on whichever side that wheel is on. I didn;t think much of it before since I assumed alignment corrects for that issue, but maybe the wheel is the culprit.

The question I would have then is this: If the wheel is possibly bad, then could it disrupt the alignment over the span of a few weeks with constant driving? If that is the case, then this may be a plausible explanation for the reason why the pull tends to re-occur every few weeks after the alignment has been completed.

I have yet to look up the torque vectoring issue to start understanding this, but thank you for the suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I still don't see the issue with 17inch and 4C here...

The tire is the same width and only 2mm smaller in diameter than the 18inch wheel.

Tire height for the 235/45/R17 = ( 2 * 235 * 0.45 + 17 inch) = 2 * 105.75 + 431.8 = 643.3 mm height
Tire height for the 235/40/R18 = ( 2 * 235 * 0.4 + 18 inch) = 2 * 94 + 457.2 = 645.2mm height

You mean to tell me that 2mm of difference in height is going to make *any* difference in handling / control?

(http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html)

The only difference between the two is the sidewall height which for the 18inch would make the ride worse over uneven terrain...

I very much enjoy the 4C on my 17inch NJORDs and would only buy larger wheels if I were to go to something like 245/40R18.
I was under the impression that 17in wheels were selected for this car due to the new england winters. Despite that I must say that the difference in the suspension settings has a noticeable feel, and the advanced setting is very much a fun ride. So I am not sure if the 17in combo with 4-c is a complete waste or at least a misnomer.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Something is wrong. I can take my hands off the steering wheel at highway speeds and stay in the middle of the lane.

(By hands off, I mean letting go, fingers hovering just above the steering wheel, no traffic).
Are you saying you can do this in the leftmost lane and the car will stay somewhat straight and not just bolt to the left immediately?
 

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Are you saying you can do this in the leftmost lane and the car will stay somewhat straight and not just bolt to the left immediately?
Left, middle, right, doesn't matter much unless I'm on a road with a steep crown. Most of them are pretty flat (side to side).
 

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Left, middle, right, doesn't matter much unless I'm on a road with a steep crown. Most of them are pretty flat (side to side).
Same for me...the car keeps straight for quite a while unless the road is a bit tilted.
 

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I don't believe it was a buyback since the car had a clear title and was driven by someone we know at the dealership. Also, I doubt it was a buy back since I haven't had a single issue with it aside from the pulling (unless the pulling qualifies it for a buyback).
You can have a clear title with a buy back. Volvo does a buy back so they don't lemon law the car.
 
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