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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So last week I noticed the car turning over a bit slow on Tuesday. On Saturday it barely started after sitting for two days. I took it for a long drive, and it started once after sitting, slowly. On Sunday it was completely dead, no cranking at all.

So today I jump the car and take it to the dealer since they told me the battery is covered under warranty. Once there they hook up a battery tool that has to say the battery is dead, but it says to recharge it. They do so and say it is fine. They also checked for draw with the car off, there was none. So I get in it to leave, and again it turns over slow, so I say check it again and again the tool says it's fine. I left it overnight because I know it will be dead in the morning. It's just annoying that the battery is clearly shot, but their stupid battery device says it's not. Just venting. Clearly this "special volvo battery tool" could use some work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: (crimnlmnded)

Quote, originally posted by kenhoeve »
I left it overnight because I know it will be dead in the morning.

 

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When mine died the tool at some auto parts store said it was fine, but the dealer's said it wasn't. I think it just depends on the tool and the competence of the person operating it.
 

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Re: (djkronik57)

The Volvo Battery Tester is made by Midtronics.
This link can provide some FAQ's on how the testing works.
http://www.midtronics.com/home....aspx

I for one, do not rely on the Midtronic Tester I have 100% but it is pretty accurate. I know from experience, if they do not have a code that the tester spits out when a battery is deemed bad, warranty WILL deny claim.

You didn't mention if they did a load test on the battery or an alternator full field test or checked the diode ripple, or even checked specific gravity. Checking/Cleaning the battery terminals I hope was done as any corrosion can impede charging. I also like to clean and tighten the module grounds under the hood along the fenders. Slight corrosion can cause all kinds of havok on the Network.

There can also be intermittent draws that are hard to detect. Normal draw should be around 30-50 mA after the Network shuts down. I can drop further after 72 hours. However, sometimes there can be an issue with a module not shutting down and keeping the network "talking" This is referred to as a "babbling node"
For example, if the med speed network is ready to shut down, all the modules must respond when pinged that they are shutting down and then everyone shuts down in order. When a node decides to "babble" it "speaks" out of turn and keeps the network continually running and drawing more amperage than normal. It might only be 100mA or so but enough to kill a battery in a day or two. Hopefully someone at your dealer knows how to diagnose a low charged battery. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
^^^ good info there.

They checked everything: load, draw, capacity, alternator, voltage regulator. It all checks out which is really funny and not so funny. I even asked about the babbling. The stupid thing checks out and has been recharged to 14.2v. Instead of letting it sit overnight, they put it on a battery tender. This was not my plan.

There was no indication for why the battery slowly died over the course of 4-5 days, so now I am left to repeat it again. We shall see. It could possibly be some random charging issue if the battery truly does hold charge.
 

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Re: (kenhoeve)

I agree they should not have put it on a battery tender! Now they will not know if there is some excessive parasitic draw! As you stated, you may well get to repeat this again!

I am a big fan of MidTronics also. They have one of the few battery testers that are worth even using, and they try to make them foolproof as well. This all makes me think it may well be some parasitic draw, which will be masked by the battery tender.

Have you measured the static voltage yourself, should be about 12.6 volts with car not running and a little over 14 volts at idle? Can you measure what it is under cranking conditions? Closer to the starter, the better!

Have you even seen this message in the DIM or HU?





Volvo has a voltage comparator that will start shutting down non-essentials under a low battery condition, or inhibit such things as fan run on.

At the end of the day, if the battery is much more than 4 years old, you are on borrowed time, and I have been fooled more than once by a lead acid battery!

Edit - I just noticed it is an 2007, so battery is at most 3 years, may want to check date code, if original it will be Varta, if replaced (in US) it will be Interstate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Again, more good info. Thanks. I have not gotten those messages, primarily I suppose because the battery has not been low while driving, only when I go to start it.

Something came up this afternoon I forgot about. A few months ago I had them enable the "afterblow" function for the CCM. The system was going approximately 1 hr after I shut off the car when I went to the garage, and shut off while I was standing there. I suspect this may have something to do with it. I actually haven't heard it work before and they installed it 3-4 months ago!
 

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Re: (kenhoeve)

Quote, originally posted by kenhoeve »
. A few months ago I had them enable the "afterblow" function for the CCM. The system was going approximately 1 hr after I shut off the car when I went to the garage, and shut off while I was standing there. I suspect this may have something to do with it. I actually haven't heard it work before and they installed it 3-4 months ago!

In a word, No, for a couple reasons.

Afterblow runs for a duration of 7 minutes, 50 minutes after shutdown. One of the few things that can inhibit it, or reduce run duration is the low voltage condition I outlined in my above post. Bottom line is it will not occur if it senses a low battery condition. (Volvo SW reliability aside!)

Assume the low voltage sensing fails. The fan runs at high speed drawing around 10 Amps for 7 minutes. This equates to a little more than 1 Amp/Hour capacity depletion, on a 60 Amp/Hour battery.

If this level of load does cause the cranking to be marginal, than the battery does not have near it's rated capacity, and needs to be replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: (rogersampson)

^^^ damn. Again thank you. Although you have now made my problem even more mysterious. At least I won't call my service advisor and insinuate that their afterblow program is flawed. Up until now my shade tree mechanic status is well intact and I have to tell you that is a good thing. If this battery is good for a while, something very random is afoot. I would rather not have to bum a jump when things go south again.
 

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Re: (kenhoeve)

If I am permitted to make a small hijack....(it is at least on-topic).

My battery is the original battery. I have an October '03 build car. I know that the battery should be changed, but I had my stealership run a test and practically laid down and said "charge me full price for a battery" and they said all checked out fine.

I have never had any battery issues other than what I would consider a relatively short time (less than 2 hours) before I get the "low battery" message on the DIM.

Could it be that the old battery simply does not trigger any of the above tests in the negative?

Thanks.
 

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Re: (rogersampson)

I had a really strange thing happen to me a few weeks ago. Something I thought was afterblow, and my dealer assured me was normal. After I would turn off the ignition, the A/C fan would still blow full blast. I was assuming this was afterblow, as my SR is disabled, and the VR is new to me, so I didn't know exactly what to expect. One day it blew for THREE HOURS!. My battery kept draining to dead! I called the dealer, they said, oh thats just the afterblow, I explained how long it seemed to be staying on, and I don't think they really believed me, so I made an appointment to disable it. A few days before the appointment, the CCM satrted acting crazy, so I drove straight to the dealer. The Fan motor had gone bad, pulling too much current, which fried a module, and let the fan continue to run after the ignition was turned off, until the battery would drain too much. (This is their explantion). So I got a new fan motor and module, and it seems to be working fine, and my afterblow had been disabled all along. It was just a strange situation, and I had no idea what was going on.
 

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Re: (Needsdecaf)

The DIM message is triggered by a simple voltage comparator. Measuring only voltage is not the best way to determine overall battery condition, it would be better if you could measure the individual cells (six of them), but that is not possible in todays consumer batteries.

I suspect that your battery has very little capacity, and that is why the voltage sags in a brief period with a moderate load, i.e. you do not have the 50 or 60 AmpHour capacity of a typical car battery.

It works fine if the car is driven each day, gets charged, doesn't see a real cold cranking situation etc. If for some reason you neeeded to crank the engine a lot, say for a compression test, I bet it would not make it. (Yes, I know, a battery charger should be connected during a compression test)

It is not unlike having a UPS on your computer, there is a power outage, and the UPS lasts for a much shorter period than you expected. It all worked, just no capacity.

I think Volvo uses some of the best battery test equipment in the industry, yet it is not foolproof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
haha. update:

CaR barely turned over this morning. I would guess about 50% charge loss over 8 hours. Back to deala'!
 

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Re: (Adam12)

The dealer should have picked up on the problem when you stated the fan started running right away, after shut down. That is not any form of afterblow.

You must wait a period of time for the condensate to drain off the evaporator. Volvo, as well as others like Mercedes, BMW, coat the evaporator with a polymer that discourages bacteria, and reduces water surface tension so it will drain off quicker. It still takes some time! I know Volvo has played with that wait period, but it will be around 50 minutes. Run duration is 7 minutes.

Their explanation of the actual failure makes perfect sense, (too bad they didn't get it right the first time.) The fan controller uses a pass element to control fan speed. If they fail due to excessive current flow, they almost always fail in a shorted condition, or full on.

I would not leave afterblow disabled, it is a good feature. Now whether or not it works after they enable it is a whole new thread!
 

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Check the wiring to that new sub and amp you installed. Amp remote wiring still drawing current? BTW, how's it sounding?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (TWMn)

Quote, originally posted by TWMn »
Check the wiring to that new sub and amp you installed. Amp remote wiring still drawing current? BTW, how's it sounding?

The very first thing I did was check the amp to see that it was shutting down. It is. That was installed quite a while ago.

It's still really good. Although I have this nagging need to build a custom enclosure to replace the factory clunker. Not sure how long I can hold back.
 

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Re: (kenhoeve)

Quote, originally posted by kenhoeve »


The very first thing I did was check the amp to see that it was shutting down. It is. That was installed quite a while ago.

It's still really good. Although I have this nagging need to build a custom enclosure to replace the factory clunker. Not sure how long I can hold back.

I'll give you a dollar if you do it!
 

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Re: (kenhoeve)

Quote, originally posted by kenhoeve »
It's still really good. Although I have this nagging need to build a custom enclosure to replace the factory clunker. Not sure how long I can hold back.

No need. Just get that JL Audio 13TW5 http://********************/smile/emthup.gif . Only needs 0.8cf. If you do however, make two and send one my way since our cars are almost identical anyway
 
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