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From C&D - <A HREF="http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=29&article_id=10753" TARGET="_blank">http://www.caranddriver.com/ar...10753</A><p><IMG SRC="http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q1/332006144353.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><I>News: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe to Have 302-HP Turbo Six <p>The new 2007 BMW 335i coupe has 302 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque and breaks ground as the first turbocharged gasoline-powered BMW in decades.<br> <br>The BMW 335i coupe that will appear later this year may look like nothing more than the latest chapter in the 3-series coupe book, but there are some radical changes under the skin. The 335i (the C goes away on this coupe as it did on the 650i for the 2006 model year) will have a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six with piezoelectric direct injection. The symmetrical turbos are relatively small and each feed three cylinders. Power output is up only 47 hp over the normally aspirated version of the same 3.0-liter six found in the 330i, but BMW claims that turbo lag is all but avoided and — more importantly — peak torque increases 34 percent and is available from 1500 to 5800 rpm. BMW estimates that the twin-turbo setup gives the 335i's six the power and torque characteristics of a 4.0-liter V-8 with 10 percent less fuel consumption and 145 fewer pounds. BMW expects the 335i to shave more than half a second from the 330i's 0-to-60 time, which should put it in the low-five-second range — scarcely more than the outgoing E46 M3. The 335i is expected to carry a base price of approximately $42,000 when it goes on sale this summer. The 2008 M3 is expected to have a 400-hp naturally aspirated V-8 and cost $10,000 more.<p>Why, you ask, would BMW go to all the trouble of making this complex turbo engine when a V-8 would be a simpler and purer means to the same end? As worldwide petroleum reserves decline and prices go up, efficiency becomes paramount, even for performance and luxury vehicles. As worldwide emissions standards become increasingly strict, high-performance diesels — recently thought to be the next big thing — become less feasible. Mercedes-Benz also recently announced a piezoelectric direct-injection gasoline six which is naturally aspirated — for now. Dr. Thomas Weber, Mercedes-Benz's top engineering and development officer, confirms that turbocharged smaller-displacement engines are in Mercedes-Benz's near-term future as well. Turbos are here to stay. </I><p>See, now there is a fair 2-door/4-door comparison, a 302 hp, 295 lb ft Turbo 3.0L BMW to compare the R to (never bought the M3 argument, totally different price and power category). Unless there is no 2007 R, in which case this is moot comparison. Gotta love the upside down world, Volvo is dropping V8s in its cars, and BMW is dropping turbos into its cars. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/sly.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? ("R" Kelly)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>"R" Kelly</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br><IMG SRC="http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/image/2006/Q1/332006144353.jpg" BORDER="0"><p></TD></TR></TABLE><br>I <B>STILL</B> don't get it with the bangled BMW's. O.K., I do understand it is more of a driver's car than the R...or most anything else out there.<br>But that car above is supposed to be a step in the right direction aesthetics-wise?<br>Those mirrors are butt ugly i.e. Mercedes.<br>And I still cannot get over the short, round 'import' look the new 3-series displays. The 7 is tolerable and the 5 is actually not bad...but the 3... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>I guess the looks are a trade-off for the <I>fun factor.</I> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (Eric_H)

AND:<p>Still too small compared to current 60 and 70 series AND no wagons.<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (Eric_H)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Eric_H</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>And I still cannot get over the short, round 'import' look the new 3-series displays. The 7 is tolerable and the 5 is actually not bad...but the 3... <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://********************/smile/emthdown.gif" BORDER="0"> <br> </TD></TR></TABLE><br>First time i saw one i though it was a Hyundai. I also think they are a step backwards style wise.
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (TexasV70R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TexasV70R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AND:<p>Still too small compared to current 60 and 70 series AND no wagons.<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>WHAT ARE U TALKIN ABOUT DUDE??<p>the new 3 series is larger than the s60 in every dimesion interiorwise and in the trunk!!!<br>The 335i will kick the ass of the R so bad, just look at the torque range <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> <br>And theres the legendary chassis of bmw.volvo is being trounced in it own ground, i.e. turbo..<br>
 

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...And there certainly is a 3-series wagon.<p>Eric, it is interesing that you say the 7-series is tolerable along with the 5-series. I think most would agree that the 3-series has the least of the "Bangle Look" while the 5 and certainly the 7 have the most.<br>Of course, everyone has their own preference. <p>The performance of the 335 will be close to the current M3, so probably a hair faster than the R.
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (TexasV70R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TexasV70R</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AND:<p>Still too small compared to current 60 and 70 series AND no wagons.<br> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/rolleyes.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree. I don't know how people could have misunderstood your post. The <B>335i</B> <I>IS SMALLER THAN</I> the current S60/V70. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A COUPE!!! And that, by definition, entails that no sedan or wagon exist in that variation.<p>Duh <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Regarding styling: take a quick glance at the new Honda Accord's front end, and then take a quick glance at the new Bangle 3. On a quick glance, they're practically identical.<p>Then take a quick glance at the butt-end of an Infiniti G35, then the butt-end of the Bangle 3. Again, they're practically identical.<p>I assure you, driving at night, you won't be able to tell the difference driving down the road until you are right up on someone, either at a stop light, or driving right beside them.<p>And what's bad about ALL of this is the obvious: the Bangle 3 is uglier than a squirrel that fell from the ugly tree. And the Japanese brands are ALL copying these ugly styling cues.
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (R Salesman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>R Salesman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><p>I agree. I don't know how people could have misunderstood your post. The <B>335i</B> <I>IS SMALLER THAN</I> the current S60/V70. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A COUPE!!! And that, by definition, entails that no sedan or wagon exist in that variation.<p>Duh <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> <p>Regarding styling: take a quick glance at the new Honda Accord's front end, and then take a quick glance at the new Bangle 3. On a quick glance, they're practically identical.<p>Then take a quick glance at the butt-end of an Infiniti G35, then the butt-end of the Bangle 3. Again, they're practically identical.<p>I assure you, driving at night, you won't be able to tell the difference driving down the road until you are right up on someone, either at a stop light, or driving right beside them.<p>And what's bad about ALL of this is the obvious: the Bangle 3 is uglier than a squirrel that fell from the ugly tree. And the Japanese brands are ALL copying these ugly styling cues.</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks!<br>
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (R Salesman)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>R Salesman</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't know how people could have misunderstood your post. The <B>335i</B> <I>IS SMALLER THAN</I> the current S60/V70. Why? BECAUSE IT'S A COUPE!!! And that, by definition, entails that no sedan or wagon exist in that variation.<p>Duh <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Actially, the 335i would be the sedan in BMW world. The 335ci would be the coupe. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Gotta agree with a lot of what is being said.<br>The only thing the bimmer has going for it (exterior-wise) are sexy wheels. Of course, they are often times several $K options. The stock wheels are actually quite cheap in appearance.<p>I still think the 5 is the best of the look.<br>The 3, for some reason just does not have 'the look' it used to have. It really reminds me of a G35 sedan in it's roundness.<p>I am actually quite impressed with the Audi, albeit 4, 6, or 8. The Mercedes is still pretty true to it's colors. As are the latest representations of the S60(who knows?).<br>But the 3-series sedan has a cheapened look as compared to the E46. It just doesn't have that edgey look that it used to present. It is just rounded and bloated. At least the 5 and 7 stretch the bloat a bit. <p>And yes, 3-series and Hyundai's/Daewoo's do seem a bit similar in on-road appearance.<p>I think it is the driving experience and mystique of the BMW that allows one to forgive Bangle for the 3's looks. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: 2007 335i vs 2007 R ? (MagoonR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>MagoonR</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actially, the 335i would be the sedan in BMW world. The 335ci would be the coupe. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/biggrin.gif" BORDER="0"> </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Thanks. Yet above in the article, it clearly states that the "c" is being dropped from the 3 series' nomenclature. Futhermore, the article only indicates that the 335i (or 335ci, if you want to use traditional BMW nomenclature) will receive the twin-turbo 6. There is no mention of the sedan or wagon variants at all . . . much less receiving that engine. And I think that the issue R Kelly raised was that a 3 series with that engine would finally be something on an even playing field from a performance perspective.
 

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Re: (flybynight)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>flybynight</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...Eric, it is interesing that you say the 7-series is tolerable along with the 5-series. I think most would agree that the 3-series has the least of the "Bangle Look" while the 5 and certainly the 7 have the most.<br>Of course, everyone has their own preference. <br></TD></TR></TABLE><br>From what I have seen on the lot next to where I work, the 5 seems to stretch the roofline a bit more.<br>The 3 is too rounded. The 7 really stretches it, but you are stuck with the ugliest rear end of the bunch. lol
 

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Re: (Eric_H)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Eric_H</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think it is the driving experience and mystique of the BMW that allows one to forgive Bangle for the 3's looks. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/wink.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am NOT saying that BMW's are bad cars, HOWEVER:<p>It seems that BMW owners have a bit of "lemming" in them. Does the car look like crap? Yes -- but so what, it seems everyong else wants one, so it must be ok. Is the car over-priced? Yes -- but everyone else seems to be paying that much, so it must be ok. Are there better alternatives out there -- yes, but it's a BMW (ooh, ahh!). Are we about to run off a cliff and drown in the ocean? Yes, but it's ok -- everyone else is doing it.<p>BMW is a prime example of a company that has, over the years, EARNED their premium by consistently producing quality product that was at the top-end of the spectrum. Year after year, they produced great looking cars, with great luxury and performance. <p>Now what they are doing is dropping the looks, dropping the quality, keeping pace in terms of performance. And they've got everyone brainwashed into thinking that when they pay the extreme premium price that they pay for a BMW, they're still getting the looks, luxury, and performance that the BMW brand has been known for. <p>Again, I am NOT saying that BMW's are bad cars . . . I am, however, saying that their styling sucks horribly, their luxury isn't nearly where it used to be, and they're making so much money off of brain-washed suckers that it's border-line fleecing. <p>Hopefully Volvo will get there someday . . . then my commission checks will be worth more than crap <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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I test drove a 330i three years ago for about 2 hours.<br>I really didn't get it. The wheels were sweet, it looked sweet (sport package), and I still think the ZHP package was/is one of the best looking sedans out there.<br>But, I have had many different cars, and do drive quite aggressively (have had my share of speeding tickets and totaled cars((not proud...just saying))), and I really did not get this ultimate driving experience. Believe me, I really wanted it, just could not see what all the fuss was about.<br>However, the salesman was a completely arrogant SOB, so that did live up to expectations. lol<p>I also grew up in a household of Jaguars for 20 years time. My first car being a 76 XJ6L. So maybe that is partially why I was not overwhelmed by the Bimmer experience?????<p>Who knows...but I kinda compare it to a Harley. Its not the best bike out there. And, would you place another decal on the tank...many would shoot it down immediately. But, because of the mystique...people place them on this high pedastal. Lemmings is a great analogy!
 

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Re: (Eric_H)

Maybe the BMW mystique is something narrowly focused that either gets you or it doesn't. <p>For me, there is no other car out there that has the same feel of the brakes, steering, handling, etc. There is a reason that people call BWM suspensions "magic". Maybe it's just not for everybody. Not saying that it's too "sporty" for some, but it just may not connect with everyone...personal preference. <p>The only cars that I have driven that are similar are porsches...and they are sports cars. I used to have an '88 735i, and that thing handled almost as well as my R...and it was HUGE! Granted, it wasn't that fast, but for a 3,800 odd pound full sized car, it had a nimbleness to it that belied it's weight and size. <p>Granted, I do agree that BMW is getting away from this. Their cars certainly aren't as special as they once were.<p>
 

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Re: (needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe the BMW mystique is something narrowly focused that either gets you or it doesn't. <p>For me, there is no other car out there that has the same feel of the brakes, steering, handling, etc. There is a reason that people call BWM suspensions "magic". Maybe it's just not for everybody. Not saying that it's too "sporty" for some, but it just may not connect with everyone...personal preference. <p>The only cars that I have driven that are similar are porsches...and they are sports cars. I used to have an '88 735i, and that thing handled almost as well as my R...and it was HUGE! Granted, it wasn't that fast, but for a 3,800 odd pound full sized car, it had a nimbleness to it that belied it's weight and size. <p>Granted, I do agree that BMW is getting away from this. Their cars certainly aren't as special as they once were.<p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>A little more of what I had in mind:<p><IMG SRC="http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL423/1725447/5918533/134093455.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL423/1725447/5918533/134093543.jpg" BORDER="0"><p><IMG SRC="http://pic12.picturetrail.com/VOL423/1725447/5918533/134093490.jpg" BORDER="0"><p>
 

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My take (because of course I have one - lol) the 2 screens on the front don't even match <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/frown.gif" BORDER="0">, the grill is far from menacing anymore, the rear is vanilla except for the nice looking exhaust tips, and look at the side (whamo) nice wheels, but with a very round/bloated look. The wheelwells are too flat too for an M-series. It needs more flair.<br>Could you please post the previous M3 underneath a pic of the latest version?<p>The E46 M3 was sooooo sweet! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0">
 

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Re: (Eric_H)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Eric_H</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could you please post the previous M3 underneath a pic of the latest version?<p>The E46 M3 was sooooo sweet! <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/smile.gif" BORDER="0"></TD></TR></TABLE><p>The new M3 (E90) is not out yet. The 335 is an inbetween vehicle until the V8 M3 arrives next year.
 

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Sorry, didn't realize that was an M5. Yet still...blech.<p>This is sweet!<br><A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M-Series-2004-BMW-M3-SMG-ONE-OWNER-CERTIFIED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6131QQitemZ4623427982QQrdZ1" TARGET="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1</A>
 

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Assuming Volvo goes the V8 route for future R models (if they even exist,) and BMW brings out the twin-turbo 6, there will almost certainly be a roundel on the front of my next car. I don't care what the car looks like - forced induction just makes too much difference at altitude to do without.<p>Audi already lost an S4 sale when they ditched the turbos for a V8, and I will not be a three-peat buyer if Volvo follows suit.
 
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