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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2006 XC90 2.5t - Hard Starts

>> Just bought this car and trying to work out the gremlins before I can give it to the wife:

> 2006 XC90 2.5t w/ 108k miles w/ new HD/V8 battery and new fuel filter. Tank is near full...

> Will start up in morning in coldest conditions after sitting all night in front of house where it's flat. BUT at lunch if I go to start car at work (sitting for 3-4hrs, parked on very slight hill pointed downhill, but also has happened uphill on the same lot), it just cranks for ~10sec before it will start. Mated and de-mated Antenna Ring several times. Thought that had fixed the problem, but no luck. Am stumped besides maybe fuel pump issue???

Thanks!
 

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You don't have an obd2 or dice that can read the fuel pressure when you try to start it right? That's the first thing I would check. Can you replicate this every time?

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You don't have an obd2 or dice that can read the fuel pressure when you try to start it right? That's the first thing I would check. Can you replicate this every time?

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I cannot replicate it exactly the same every time. And the first time I tried to mate Torque via my Bluetooth dongle it send the modules into a tizzy. Got anti-skid warning, brake failure warning, etc... Had the same issues with my S60 before I got the CAN protocol set properly.

Am purchasing a mechanical fuel pressure gauge, but would love VIDA.
 

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Check out the icarsoft I have it and it works great for reading individual modules.

That's strange though.. Maybe you have a bad obd2 reader. I've got one and it works fine on our xc90 and s40 and every other car I've used it on.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My OBD dongle has caused this "freak-out" on both of my P2 vehicles, but has read both P1 cars fine, and a Lexus of my in-laws. Once I had the CAN protocol set right, my S60 works fine with Torque.

I always thought that Torque was passive, unless you send a reset command, but clearly it is a 2-way communication...


>>>>>>>>>>>>

ANY OTHER IDEAS GUYS??? Car always starts after sitting overnight on first crank, and will restart on first crank while hot. But after sitting for a few hours, struggles...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
UPDATE****

Car again cranked a bunch before starting on the hill, BUT ALSO ON FLAT. Happens after car sits for 1-3hrs. Will re-start immediately.
 

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Next time, you're in a place where you think you can replicate the problem, try turning the key to the II position and let it sit for 5-10 seconds before cranking the engine. Not sure it'll make any difference but try it and let us know. Can try 5 seconds the first time, 10 seconds second time, any variation that seems to work consistently (if it ends up working better at all).

Also, at some point, pull the throttle body and clean it out. Probably make zero difference to your failure scenario but it's going to be filthy enough that you'll be glad you did it regardless (assuming it's been 108k and never got cleaned).
 

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Next time when you're in a place where you think you can replicate the problem, try turning the key to the II position and let it sit for 5-10 seconds before cranking the engine. Not sure it'll make any difference but try it and let us know. Can try 5 seconds the first time, 10 seconds second time, any variation that seems to work consistently (if it ends up working better at all).

Also, at some point, pull the throttle body and clean it out. Probably make zero difference to your failure scenario but it's going to be filthy enough that you'll be glad you did it regardless (assuming it's been 108k and never got cleaned). http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?11485-ETM-Cleaning-Procedure, http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?123756-How-to-clean-the-Throttle-Body and about a quarter way down on this: http://www.freewebs.com/howardsvolvos/engine.htm
 

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I would check the fuel pressure every few hours with a manual gauge and see if it's dropping, and then go from there.

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would check the fuel pressure every few hours with a manual gauge and see if it's dropping, and then go from there.

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That's the plan. Thanks for the responses. I'm leaning towards leaking injector/s...
 

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If the injectors were leaking gas out youd be able to see it. When you put the key to position 2 the fuel pump should prime and boost the rail to 60psi or so.. When you get the fuel pressure gauge, run the car with it and see what it does, turn it off and go to position 2 and see if it spikes, and then watch the pressure and see if it goes down rapidly.

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
If the injectors were leaking gas out youd be able to see it. When you put the key to position 2 the fuel pump should prime and boost the rail to 60psi or so.. When you get the fuel pressure gauge, run the car with it and see what it does, turn it off and go to position 2 and see if it spikes, and then watch the pressure and see if it goes down rapidly.

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Couldn't injectors leak into cylinder causing wet plugs and hard start? This is what I'm worried about because it can possibly make it into the oil which is bad for motor health?

I tend to go a little crazy, so just bought new injectors (FCP @ $50/ea), and already have new plugs on hand. So hoping to do compression test, install new plugs and injectors, then change oil...

Waiting on fuel pressure gauge (just ordered it).
 

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it could also be a bad or going check valve on the fuel pump allowing the pressure to be relieved back into the tank.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
it could also be a bad or going check valve on the fuel pump allowing the pressure to be relieved back into the tank.
I'd kinda rather it be a fuel pump issue (and avoid possible engine wear), but it will start after sitting for day/s, just not after sitting for 1-3hrs. I haven't tried to start it after an hour+ with WOT to see if it is indeed flooded, but I will shortly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This is my theory and I'm 90% sure this is it. Just hoping for no fuel in the oil!

http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?240506-Hard-Start-Residual-Fuel-Pressure-Issue

"It's the injectors. Removed them and 4/5 were wet. O-Rings were holding pressure just fine. The pintle on the injector and injector seat on the manifold was wet. Pintle was leaking fuel when closed.
Installed the stock injectors and so far three hot starts and not a problem. Looks like I'll be looking for new injectors. I'm going to contact the shop that cleaned them and ask them what solution did they used to clean them.

Looks like I'll also be going for an oil change.

Just to clarify on my symptoms/observation on this hot start issue for future reference for others:
- Cold starts: OK
- Quick on/off hot starts: OK
- Hot starts after +10min: Hard, approx 10-20 strokes.
- No running issues. Injectors fueling like normal.
- Fuel pressure will gradually drop after shutdown.
- Injector pintles wet upon removal on hot engine. *Alway disconnect the battery and relieve fuel system pressure safely before servicing."
 

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Mine does the EXACT same thing, on an incline (house driveway) my wife said that it cranks for a few minutes before starting. On a flat surface no issues. Actually even on an incline it doesnt happen all the time. I am interested to see what you find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Mine does the EXACT same thing, on an incline (house driveway) my wife said that it cranks for a few minutes before starting. On a flat surface no issues. Actually even on an incline it doesnt happen all the time. I am interested to see what you find out.
I will keep this thread updated. I have a pressure gauge on the fuel rail right now.

@ Idle: 43psig (58psia)
@ 0min off: 43
@ 30min: 60
@ 60min: 60
@ 90min: 60
@ 120min: 60
@ 240min: 58
@ 380min : 52
@ 500min : 43
@ 1090min : 23
@ 1290min : 22
 

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43 psi at idle is normal. With the key in position 2 it should be near 60. It shouldn't go up if you don't turn the key though. So you're saying it went up by itself? Maybe the fuel pump relay is messed up?

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
43 psi at idle is normal. With the key in position 2 it should be near 60. It shouldn't go up if you don't turn the key though. So you're saying it went up by itself? Maybe the fuel pump relay is messed up?

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Yes I am saying that car off it went up to 60psig. It is still there. So not the leaky injector that I thought. Relay would be great. I also have a low mileage PEM and new FPS sitting around.
 

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Isn't the pressure supposed to rise to prevent vapor lock immediately after shut off? I think most cars will run the fuel pump 2-3 seconds after shut down to keep the pressure high in the lines.
 
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