Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

This phenomenon seems to be concentrated to 2005's only as well.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

I'm really sorry to hear of the failure. In our case, the cost to open up the engine (remove front head) was quoted at $2500. Even if it's only your bearing that has gone bad and the remainder of the engine is OK, if you repair the existing engine, you'd have a fixed engine with 120k on it, which frankly doesn't seem worth it (at least to me). Given the increasing number of failures on this specific component of this engine, I'd also consider writing a nice letter to VCNA to see if they would cut me a break on a new XC90 (or a new engine).

I'd also be very interested to see the records on the batch of bearings (from SKF, or a Japanese outfit ?) that were used in the early motors and whether there is a correlation of a specific batch of the bearings and the engines that have experienced a CB shaft failure.

Sorry to be of so little help, but you have my sincere empathy.

Modified by safetyfirst at 8:04 PM 9-29-2009

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

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I thought you might want to see some pics of this problem. I am a volvo master tech and have installed three V8 engines this month because of this problem. The ballance shaft in this engine runs on a sealed bearing not lubricated by engine oil. When the bearing fails the shaft hits the inside of the block breaking the timing chain bending all the valves. Its not a matter of if the bearing will fail but when!!!

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

More pics of the engine this is the new engine about to go in. Volvo pays a whopping 8.8 hours to install the new engine under warranty. It takes about 3 days after doing about 5 of these.

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so much for the v8 steller record. When i called Volvo usa about my engine mine was supposedly the first v8 to EVER have any internal problems......wonder what they would say now, it has been about one year since i had my engine replaced and now there are like 10 people with the same problem. No more volvos for me, hell at this point i would rather have an explorer than the xc90.......

 

Thanks so much for all the info and pictures. It's great ammo to know that this is a sealed bearing and not lubricated by engine oil. We are building our case right now for assistance from Volvo, by compiling all service records and oil/filter receipts. I have changed my own oil ever since the free maintenance expired and the dealer made it sound important that I have all of my oil/filter receipts from at least the last 30K miles. I have most of them, but maybe not all of them. Sounds like my oil changing schedule should be a moot point anyway.
I don't anticipate ever buying another Volvo again. Our T6 was a disaster and this vehicle has a service history a mile long. All of my other vehicles combined that I have owned in my life, have not been in for service as much as our XC90. It hasn't been just minor things either, even before our engine failure. We gave Volvo a second chance after they bought our T6 back and they have failed us again. It's a shame because when performing properly, it's definitely my favorite SUV out there.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (njb8199)

Quote, originally posted by njb8199 »

This phenomenon seems to be concentrated to 2005's only as well.

Thats what I am thinking also . . . has anyone hear of 06+ having this problem ?

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (hardattack)

Quote, originally posted by hardattack »

I thought you might want to see some pics of this problem. I am a volvo master tech and have installed three V8 engines this month because of this problem. The ballance shaft in this engine runs on a sealed bearing not lubricated by engine oil. When the bearing fails the shaft hits the inside of the block breaking the timing chain bending all the valves. Its not a matter of if the bearing will fail but when!!!

Awwww, crap. Well, that makes it a no brainer for me. Keep the car until 7yr / 100k per the extended warranty, then expect to break it for parts when it fails. If 06 and later MY engines start going belly up, I'd wager there will be a rush on application for extended warranty on the V8. And if that happens, then you can bet the cost to buy such insurance will sky rocket.

It the swaged cam sprockets don't get you, the bad non-lubricated bearings will ?......

At this point, if I'm VCNA, I'm on the horn to headquarters asking for explicit info on the bearing design, batch #, whether any changes were made in the specs for this bearing, etc etc and why it's failing in the (so far only) 2005's. I would think that the dealerships will revolt if Volvo continues to pay 8.8 hours for warranty R & R of the engine compared to the three days it really takes to R&R it in the field. Does anyone have details on how many V8 units were manufactured in 2005 and what proportion has failed ? The numbers may still be trivial compared to the old Yamaha V8 SHO fiasco, but the number can only increase......

Too bad the T5 isn't still available. Nothing like a tried and true engine design.....

What a disappointment.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, brother kowalcs. You deserve better than that.

Go after Volvo. It sounds like it is their problem. You did your part with regard to timely maintenance and careful operation.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (TurboR850)

Quote, originally posted by TurboR850 »

Thats what I am thinking also . . . has anyone hear of 06+ having this problem ?

Bump for this question. If this is becoming standard for any V8, I need to prepare to get rid of ours before the 7 year 100K mile warranty is up.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (Husker Z)

I have NOT heard of or have I replaced an engine on an 06 yet. The story on this as I know it is.......

In the first 3/4 of production in 05 they learned of the ballance shaft bearing failures. The failure was figured to be from water. In the valley of the block where the ballance shaft and bearing sit water gets in there and rusts the bearing causing the failure. So to fix the problem they drilled a hole in the block so the water can drain out so the bearing is no longer sitting in water preventing the bearing from rusting.

From my experience I have done 4 of these engine jobs the first 2 were clearly rusted badly causing the failure without question. The second 2 I have torn apart were not rusted so bad and had the hole already drilled in the block. Like the one in the pic not much rust but the bearing still clearly failed. I unfortinatly did not take a pic of the first 2 the difference is night and day between the rust failed one and the one that just gave up.

Now all of these have been 05 model years. I now have a fifth one to tear down that got towed in a few days ago I will take and post some pics when I get it apart.

Now I am no engineier but a sealed non engine oil lubricated bearing spinning the same speed as the crankshaft through hot and cold humid to dry conditions is only going to last so long. In my mind it will never be as long as the bearings in the engine. But I could be wrong it will be a wait and see for 06 and up.

 

How do we know when our V8 was produced?

I have NOT heard of or have I replaced an engine on an 06 yet. The story on this as I know it is.......

In the first 3/4 of production in 05 they learned of the ballance shaft bearing failures. The failure was figured to be from water. In the valley of the block where the ballance shaft and bearing sit water gets in there and rusts the bearing causing the failure. So to fix the problem they drilled a hole in the block so the water can drain out so the bearing is no longer sitting in water preventing the bearing from rusting.

From my experience I have done 4 of these engine jobs the first 2 were clearly rusted badly causing the failure without question. The second 2 I have torn apart were not rusted so bad and had the hole already drilled in the block. Like the one in the pic not much rust but the bearing still clearly failed. I unfortinatly did not take a pic of the first 2 the difference is night and day between the rust failed one and the one that just gave up.

Now all of these have been 05 model years. I now have a fifth one to tear down that got towed in a few days ago I will take and post some pics when I get it apart.

Now I am no engineier but a sealed non engine oil lubricated bearing spinning the same speed as the crankshaft through hot and cold humid to dry conditions is only going to last so long. In my mind it will never be as long as the bearings in the engine. But I could be wrong it will be a wait and see for 06 and up.

Hardattack, I read as much as I could on V8's before purchasing and never saw anything posted about this till now. How would we find out if ours was produced in the first 3/4s? Also if we are in the window for failure what do you suggest? Should we have the bearing changed inspected and changed? What's the cost associated with that? How hard is it to inspect? Also how prevalent is this for V8's? Is it 25, 50, 75%? Thanks Mark

 

LS1 Swap time

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (hardattack)

Ok I had a chance to pull apart the 5th engine today this one clearly failed because of rust. This engine has 36,000 miles on it. It was detailed,cleaned and sold by carmax as the car sits on the lot waiting to be resold the bearing sits in the water that was used to wash the engine allowing the rust to destroy the bearing quickly. A few hundred miles after it is sold it gives up. This one broke the timing chain clean off. The worst part of this one is that even though volvo knows about this problem they declinded to pay for anything because it now has a carmax warranty on it. Now I am not a fan of carmax myself however in this case I hope carmax has good lawers. Carmax only authorized 2 hours labor to tear the engine down to determen if they were going to pay for it. So in this case the poor customer is having to pay for tear down of the engine of his brand new car.

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Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (hardattack)

Hardattack, thanks very much for posting this extremely interesting information. Thanks also for the interesting info on the problems with the 3.2 (made in Wales...).

Was this (poor sod's) engine in an 05 as well ?

Looks like a good example of why detailing an engine is a bad idea.......

Thanks.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (safetyfirst)

Sorry, yes this car is a 2005 also. I'm not sure why my pics showed up side by side this time? I need to figure out what I did wrong. It makes it hard to read.

 

Such a simple problem when it's exposed - ouch!

My sincere condolences to the poor owners this is happening to - and to Volvo for the black eye.

MAT

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (hardattack)

If this becomes a common problem for this engine, how much would it cost to replace the counterbalance shaft/bearing assembly? I have a 6yr / 100K warranty on my '07 S80 V8, so I'm thinking of doing this if the engine hits 100K without the failure occurring earlier.

What does the part cost, and how many hours labor does the book say it takes to replace it? Thanks.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (arporro)

Quote, originally posted by arporro »

If this becomes a common problem for this engine, how much would it cost to replace the counterbalance shaft/bearing assembly? I have a 6yr / 100K warranty on my '07 S80 V8, so I'm thinking of doing this if the engine hits 100K without the failure occurring earlier. What does the part cost, and how many hours labor does the book say it takes to replace it? Thanks.

Good question!

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (arporro)

Quote, originally posted by arporro »

If this becomes a common problem for this engine, how much would it cost to replace the counterbalance shaft/bearing assembly? I have a 6yr / 100K warranty on my '07 S80 V8, so I'm thinking of doing this if the engine hits 100K without the failure occurring earlier. What does the part cost, and how many hours labor does the book say it takes to replace it? Thanks.

Well, in my case the dealership quoted $2500 to take a look. So, you got to figure that replacing the bearing(s) has to be at least that, plus maybe a grand more ? I'd be very motivated to find a grade 5 ceramic bearing assembly to replace the steel one. Maybe hardattack knows what the book calls for to R & R the CB shaft ?

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (safetyfirst)

That is a great question and right now I dont know the answer, me and another tech were discussing this before work this morning. Trying to decide if it would be worth while.

It would certinly be a ton of work to do, the engine would have to be removed, both heads, the oil pan the timing chain and cover. It would almost be a full rebuild to go in and replace one bearing.

I think the cost of that would be close to replacing the long block anyway. Due to the incredable amount of time it would take.

On the pics I posted here both of the cylinder heads are still bolted to the engine there is a cover on top of the balance shaft that the 2 knock sensors bolt to and a bearing cap on top of the failed bearing. The bearing cap is bolted down with 3 bolts that are too long to come all the way out with the front head still on. So I loosend the bolts held them up as high as they would go and cut then in half down there in that tight little space to get it out. I was able to do this because I knew the engine would not be going back together. If it was I would have no choice but to take the front head off. The catch 22 is that the front head will not come out with the engine in the car

Oh and I about died when I seen the new Tech-net-note that came out this morning. It was a random note saying that Volvo does not recommend washing there engines with a pic of a V8 with a circle around the intake manifold. It had no other detailed info in the message. I guess they just wanted all the dealers to know not to wash an engine

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (hardattack)

Quote, originally posted by hardattack »

That is a great question and right now I dont know the answer, me and another tech were discussing this before work this morning. Trying to decide if it would be worth while. It would certinly be a ton of work to do, the engine would have to be removed, both heads, the oil pan the timing chain and cover. It would almost be a full rebuild to go in and replace one bearing. I think the cost of that would be close to replacing the long block anyway. Due to the incredable amount of time it would take. On the pics I posted here both of the cylinder heads are still bolted to the engine there is a cover on top of the balance shaft that the 2 knock sensors bolt to and a bearing cap on top of the failed bearing. The bearing cap is bolted down with 3 bolts that are too long to come all the way out with the front head still on. So I loosend the bolts held them up as high as they would go and cut then in half down there in that tight little space to get it out. I was able to do this because I knew the engine would not be going back together. If it was I would have no choice but to take the front head off. The catch 22 is that the front head will not come out with the engine in the car Oh and I about died when I seen the new Tech-net-note that came out this morning. It was a random note saying that Volvo does not recommend washing there engines with a pic of a V8 with a circle around the intake manifold. It had no other detailed info in the message. I guess they just wanted all the dealers to know not to wash an engine

Thanks for the information -- nothing is easy is it?

 

I WISH MY poop COULD LOOK LIKE THIS.

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (kowalcs)

Please help me understand this problem. From reading this thread, I gather that:

1) The balance shaft is located in the crux of the "V" (above the block, between the intake manifolds), and is external to the engine?
2) The balance shaft is driven by the camshaft timing chain.
3) When the bearing fails, it takes out the timing chain, and valves and pistons start a "meet and greet" party, resulting in catastrophic engine failure (ergo the V8 is an interference design).

Is this correct? If so, can the balance shaft bearing be replaced periodically w/o too much expense as part of a preventive maintenance program? Also, are there any signs that the bearing is heading south? Any way to inspect the bearing?

I am also curious how water gets to the V of the engine. Between the hood, and the engine covers, I would expect the V to stay dry. Also, I would expect that the engine heat would quickly evaporate water sitting in the V (it must get rather warm in there).

Modified by ChicagoT5 at 12:49 PM 10-4-2009

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (ChicagoT5)

I asked the same (maybe a bit more general) question here

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=126742

for no avail yet...

 

Re: 2005 XC90 V8 120K Miles - Needs New Engine - Counter Balance Shaft Bearing (ChicagoT5)

Your statements are correct. The balance shaft is external,driven by the chain,and the valves not just hit the pistons the go through them.

To remove the balance shaft the engine must be removed from the car. It would not be far from a complete engine rebuild by the time you get it out.

Water gets in from washing the engine and condensation. One spec of rust in a sealed bearing is BAD news.