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OK, the 2002.5 S80s will be here in February 2002. The most significant changes are: For the 2.9 model, a price increase of $300 with the Security Glass being standard. In the T6 model, a $950 increase in the MSRP but Security Glass, DSTC and 17" Interceptor alloys are standard equipment! Lastly, two new colors are available: Black Sapphire Metallic (code #452) and Pearl White Metallic (code #453) which will cost an additional $200 over the cost of the metallic paint since it is a 3-stage paint process.

Yannis
 

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quote:

Originally posted by GrecianVolvo:
OK, the 2002.5 S80s will be here in February 2002. The most significant changes are: For the 2.9 model, a price increase of $300 with the Security Glass being standard. In the T6 model, a $950 increase in the MSRP but Security Glass, DSTC and 17" Interceptor alloys are standard equipment! Lastly, two new colors are available: Black Sapphire Metallic (code #452) and Pearl White Metallic (code #453) which will cost an additional $200 over the cost of the metallic paint since it is a 3-stage paint process.

Yannis
Ooh. Trouble is, they priced themselves out of reach for me when they made the leather and sunroof standard. $38k base price?! Too rich for my blood, I'm afraid. We got my wife's 2000 S80 for $35k.

My in-laws just bought an Avalon because they wanted the rear-seat legroom. They only paid $30k.

How is Volvo going to compete once they put Head curtains in the Toyotas?

Well, maybe they don't care. I suppose you do have to irk some loyal customers when the new ideas are turned out. Can't not step on everyone's toes, I guess.

Pity.
 

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The new car will debut at the LA Autoshow in early January.

As for Avalons, it's a different market. The Avalon competes with cars like the Mercury Grand Marquis and the like.

The S80 is more in competition wiht the Audi A6, BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class, Infiniti I30, Lexus GS
 

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quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
The new car will debut at the LA Autoshow in early January.

As for Avalons, it's a different market. The Avalon competes with cars like the Mercury Grand Marquis and the like.

The S80 is more in competition wiht the Audi A6, BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class, Infiniti I30, Lexus GS
George, the Avalon, if memory serves me right, is the Lexus GS with the Toyota emblem on the hood, no leather seats, no sunroof (hint, hint). A smart buyer will recognize this (like my in-laws) and not spend the extra money on the fancy doo-dads when all they wanted was a nice-sized car with enough back seat legroom.

Now, maybe Volvo doesn't want to go after the intelligent car buyer. (Pity--when they push safety those are the folks whose ears perk up.) Intelligent people get and stay rich by not spending their money foolishly and don't waste it on frivolous stuff, especially depreciating assets.

I just don't see Volvo going after that market. And I don't know why.

Oh well, maybe they know something that I don't about how folks buy cars.
 

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I guess it depends on how you look at that. Intelligent people don't always equate to people on a budget and vise versa.

What I meant before was that the Grand Marquis is more of a competitor to the Toyota than the S80.

Lexus still makes the GS even though Toyota builds the Avalon. They still sell a ton also, to argueably intelligent people.

I don't think Volvo fits in to that mould wihtin the Ford portfolio. If anything, Volvo is going to be pitched more at VW/Infiniti/Acura/ whereas the Jaguar brand will pitch in against BMW, MB and Lexus (Audi somwhere in between closer to Volvo).

For those buyers wanting to pay less, they'll probably market them more at a Mercury, a Lincoln or a large Mazda like the Millenia.

Volvo definitely has a prestige card to play over the Toyota, and that comes with a premium.
 

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quote:

Originally posted by T5 Dave:
George, the Avalon, if memory serves me right, is the Lexus GS with the Toyota emblem on the hood, no leather seats, no sunroof (hint, hint). A smart buyer will recognize this (like my in-laws) and not spend the extra money on the fancy doo-dads when all they wanted was a nice-sized car with enough back seat legroom.

I cannot believe you put the Lexus GS300 and teh Avalon on the same...line! The GS300 looks like a sporty sedan and drives like one. The Avalon looks like a grandfather's car and drives like one! PROOF: Your FATHER-IN-LAW bought it...I assume that, at this stage in his life, he could afford the GS300 if he wanted it. But he preferred the Avalon primarily to save some $$$ and I am sure the style of the car fit him most.

The S80 has nothing to do in competing with a car like the Avalon, a Lexus wannabe. That and the Camry have become so mainstream American (and I do mean that in a negative way) that it is not even funny, anymore.

Yannis
 

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Yannis,

The Avalon is based on a Lexus model, indeed, it's the same model as the Lexus with a few less features. Typically both are built on the SAME production line and the worker slaps on one marque or the other, but the sheet metal is the same for both. Don't know if Toy does that, but it would make sense to get the economies of production to the minimum.

What I'm saying is Volvo hasn't quite gotten into the minds of their customers yet-- I'm not seeing evidence that they really know how the customers think.

In my case, my wife and I bought the S80 (base 2.9, no leather, no sunroof) because she wanted to replace her 'crush-mobile', a '93 Mitsubishi Eclipse. She was getting surrounded by SUVs and big semis on the freeway to work. The first thing we thought of was the SUV. Good in safety (we thought) in multiple-car crash scenarios, but once I did the data search at www.hwysafety.org we discovered SUVs were lousy (high death rates) in single car accidents between the rollover problem (later verified with the Firestone fiasco) and the side-slide-into-a-pole scenario.

So we picked the S80 because it had the head curtains and had a lower cg so it wouldn't roll over. We din't buy it because it was a 'luxury' model. The BMW only had the head curtain for the front seaters, and she didn't want the BMW logo on the hood that screamed "rob me, I'm a single woman in an expensive car" to every potential carjacker in the state. She also liked the S80 for the rear seat legroom, so she wound up taking everyone to lunch at work.

You need to understand that we both don't like leather seats or the sunroof: 1) the leather is too hot when we go to the desert (her parents live there, it's 118 in the shade and there is no shade) so the cloth seats are WAY more comfy in those conditions and 2) we keep a car for a long time (over 10 years) so sunroofs leak over time and drip. We don't have a garage, so the cars are 'outside pets' so once the sunroof starts leaking, with our luck chances are it will drip and form a puddle on the driver's seat (natch). So we said "No sunroof." Besides, it cuts out my headroom.

So, if we had to make that buying decision today, chances are we wouldn't pick the S80 because it's gotten too expensive and comes standard with the leather seats and sunroof. There are other cheaper cars available now with the headcurtains that have the same mushy-numb steering and a soft ride. Yeah, they look boring, but they're $8000 cheaper.
Remember--rich people don't get rich by wasting their money on depreciating assets. $8000 is a big chunk of change, especially when financed over time.

When the Volvo was the only car available with the head curtains, it was worth the extra money because saving my head was worth the extra price (then only $5000 more than the Avalon.) Now that cheaper models are available elsewhere, the cost differential isn't justifiable to me anymore.

FYI. Just a piece of the way my purchasing mind works. Be careful, if Volvo concentrates on getting a new cutomer base with the push to the 'lux' segment, they run the risk of losing their loyal customer base (the folks that think things through carefully)

Also, having watched some very rich folks, they'd die before buying a Volvo. The guy that's got the mansion in Palm Springs with the air-conditioned dog house and 40 restored WWII warbirds at the airport does NOT drive a Volvo, most likely because if the stigma of the last 40 years of the mobile-brick. Trust me, I've seen him. No matter how hard Volvo pushes to the luxury segment, they won't convince this guy to buy one, sadly because it's got the Volvo name on it.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.
 

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quote:

Originally posted by T5 Dave:
Yannis,

The Avalon is based on a Lexus model, indeed, it's the same model as the Lexus with a few less features. Typically both are built on the SAME production line and the worker slaps on one marque or the other, but the sheet metal is the same for both. Don't know if Toy does that, but it would make sense to get the economies of production to the minimum.

What I'm saying is Volvo hasn't quite gotten into the minds of their customers yet-- I'm not seeing evidence that they really know how the customers think.

In my case, my wife and I bought the S80 (base 2.9, no leather, no sunroof) because she wanted to replace her 'crush-mobile', a '93 Mitsubishi Eclipse. She was getting surrounded by SUVs and big semis on the freeway to work. The first thing we thought of was the SUV. Good in safety (we thought) in multiple-car crash scenarios, but once I did the data search at www.hwysafety.org we discovered SUVs were lousy (high death rates) in single car accidents between the rollover problem (later verified with the Firestone fiasco) and the side-slide-into-a-pole scenario.

So we picked the S80 because it had the head curtains and had a lower cg so it wouldn't roll over. We din't buy it because it was a 'luxury' model. The BMW only had the head curtain for the front seaters, and she didn't want the BMW logo on the hood that screamed "rob me, I'm a single woman in an expensive car" to every potential carjacker in the state. She also liked the S80 for the rear seat legroom, so she wound up taking everyone to lunch at work.

You need to understand that we both don't like leather seats or the sunroof: 1) the leather is too hot when we go to the desert (her parents live there, it's 118 in the shade and there is no shade) so the cloth seats are WAY more comfy in those conditions and 2) we keep a car for a long time (over 10 years) so sunroofs leak over time and drip. We don't have a garage, so the cars are 'outside pets' so once the sunroof starts leaking, with our luck chances are it will drip and form a puddle on the driver's seat (natch). So we said "No sunroof." Besides, it cuts out my headroom.

So, if we had to make that buying decision today, chances are we wouldn't pick the S80 because it's gotten too expensive and comes standard with the leather seats and sunroof. There are other cheaper cars available now with the headcurtains that have the same mushy-numb steering and a soft ride. Yeah, they look boring, but they're $8000 cheaper.
Remember--rich people don't get rich by wasting their money on depreciating assets. $8000 is a big chunk of change, especially when financed over time.

When the Volvo was the only car available with the head curtains, it was worth the extra money because saving my head was worth the extra price (then only $5000 more than the Avalon.) Now that cheaper models are available elsewhere, the cost differential isn't justifiable to me anymore.

FYI. Just a piece of the way my purchasing mind works. Be careful, if Volvo concentrates on getting a new cutomer base with the push to the 'lux' segment, they run the risk of losing their loyal customer base (the folks that think things through carefully)

Also, having watched some very rich folks, they'd die before buying a Volvo. The guy that's got the mansion in Palm Springs with the air-conditioned dog house and 40 restored WWII warbirds at the airport does NOT drive a Volvo, most likely because if the stigma of the last 40 years of the mobile-brick. Trust me, I've seen him. No matter how hard Volvo pushes to the luxury segment, they won't convince this guy to buy one, sadly because it's got the Volvo name on it.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.
 

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As I recall the Avalon is based on the previous generation Camry (2001 and earlier) which also spawned the Lexus ES300 (2001 and earlier). For 2002 the Camry and ES300 have moved to a newer chassis I believe.

Thanks.

-rdo
[email protected]

quote:

Originally posted by T5 Dave:
Yannis,

The Avalon is based on a Lexus model, indeed, it's the same model as the Lexus with a few less features. Typically both are built on the SAME production line and the worker slaps on one marque or the other, but the sheet metal is the same for both. Don't know if Toy does that, but it would make sense to get the economies of production to the minimum.

What I'm saying is Volvo hasn't quite gotten into the minds of their customers yet-- I'm not seeing evidence that they really know how the customers think.

In my case, my wife and I bought the S80 (base 2.9, no leather, no sunroof) because she wanted to replace her 'crush-mobile', a '93 Mitsubishi Eclipse. She was getting surrounded by SUVs and big semis on the freeway to work. The first thing we thought of was the SUV. Good in safety (we thought) in multiple-car crash scenarios, but once I did the data search at www.hwysafety.org we discovered SUVs were lousy (high death rates) in single car accidents between the rollover problem (later verified with the Firestone fiasco) and the side-slide-into-a-pole scenario.

So we picked the S80 because it had the head curtains and had a lower cg so it wouldn't roll over. We din't buy it because it was a 'luxury' model. The BMW only had the head curtain for the front seaters, and she didn't want the BMW logo on the hood that screamed "rob me, I'm a single woman in an expensive car" to every potential carjacker in the state. She also liked the S80 for the rear seat legroom, so she wound up taking everyone to lunch at work.

You need to understand that we both don't like leather seats or the sunroof: 1) the leather is too hot when we go to the desert (her parents live there, it's 118 in the shade and there is no shade) so the cloth seats are WAY more comfy in those conditions and 2) we keep a car for a long time (over 10 years) so sunroofs leak over time and drip. We don't have a garage, so the cars are 'outside pets' so once the sunroof starts leaking, with our luck chances are it will drip and form a puddle on the driver's seat (natch). So we said "No sunroof." Besides, it cuts out my headroom.

So, if we had to make that buying decision today, chances are we wouldn't pick the S80 because it's gotten too expensive and comes standard with the leather seats and sunroof. There are other cheaper cars available now with the headcurtains that have the same mushy-numb steering and a soft ride. Yeah, they look boring, but they're $8000 cheaper.
Remember--rich people don't get rich by wasting their money on depreciating assets. $8000 is a big chunk of change, especially when financed over time.

When the Volvo was the only car available with the head curtains, it was worth the extra money because saving my head was worth the extra price (then only $5000 more than the Avalon.) Now that cheaper models are available elsewhere, the cost differential isn't justifiable to me anymore.

FYI. Just a piece of the way my purchasing mind works. Be careful, if Volvo concentrates on getting a new cutomer base with the push to the 'lux' segment, they run the risk of losing their loyal customer base (the folks that think things through carefully)

Also, having watched some very rich folks, they'd die before buying a Volvo. The guy that's got the mansion in Palm Springs with the air-conditioned dog house and 40 restored WWII warbirds at the airport does NOT drive a Volvo, most likely because if the stigma of the last 40 years of the mobile-brick. Trust me, I've seen him. No matter how hard Volvo pushes to the luxury segment, they won't convince this guy to buy one, sadly because it's got the Volvo name on it.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.
 

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Rollie is right. The Avalon is based on the previous generation Camry platform and has nothing to do with the Lexus GS-Series or any Lexus for that matter. Of course all Lexus are based on JDM Toyotas but the GS300/400/430 are based on a RWD JDM chassis.

-Drew
 

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quote:

Originally posted by [email protected]:
As for Avalons, it's a different market. The Avalon competes with cars like the Mercury Grand Marquis and the like.
They do? The Grand Marquis's only true competitor is the Crown Vic, and its the same car (and same company) so it's really a loner. That car is in a segment that was once big, but has now unfortunately slimmed down to those two cars...the V8 RWD American family sedan, and it has become a car for people who were around when these were big, and they are now all very old (although Ford is trying to change that with the Marauder). That segment has been cut down in favor of import FWD cars like the Camry and Accord. The back seat is decently large in an S80 or Avalon, yes, but the back seat of a Crown Vic is gargantuan in comparison, not to mention the trunk thats a bottomless pit.

quote:

Originally posted by T5 Dave:
The first thing we thought of was the SUV. Good in safety (we thought) in multiple-car crash scenarios, but once I did the data search at www.hwysafety.org we discovered SUVs were lousy (high death rates) in single car accidents between the rollover problem (later verified with the Firestone fiasco) and the side-slide-into-a-pole scenario.
This is kind of off topic, but I'm glad someone else besides myself has woken up and seen the curse these vehicles are.

quote:

Originally posted by T5 Dave:
The guy that's got the mansion in Palm Springs with the air-conditioned dog house and 40 restored WWII warbirds at the airport does NOT drive a Volvo
Why drive a Volvo when you can have a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, a McLaren, and a Bentley with a cheauffer?
 
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