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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Alright Gang,

It's been a long time since I've posted, but over the past 12 months or so I've been looking at various 122's as a means to get into the realm affordable classics. I've been in direct contact with a few different sellers but for various reasons the sales never happen. Below are the actual cars I've pursued.

Anyhow, among the cars of interest was a car listed here on SwedeSpeed (https://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?593747-1965-122S-for-sale-South-Carolina) in which the seller agreed to take $5,000. A few body defects here and there, but largely original which is a plus. Ultimately I passed on this because it had some deal-breaking rust.

Next was this one (http://topclassiccarsforsale.com/volvo/555643-1965-volvo-122s-amazon-2-dr-sedan.html) to which the seller agreed to $6,000, but was sold before I get arrange transportation. A few minor body defects, but again largely original.

Then finally this fellow (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1968-volvo-122s-6/) which I bid $8,000 on but was outbid by $900.
Repainted, but very original and in generally great shape.
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Which brings me to my current situation and car of interest (https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/cto/d/cold-spring-1965-volvo-amazon-offer/6875627471.html). I have loads of videos and photos of this car, but because I do not have permission from the seller to post them I'll limit the photos to their own CL Ad.

The car had a recent repaint, which included replacement of rear wheel arches, driver's rocker panel, glassing of the passenger headlight housing, as well as some other body patches along the way. The body work is "OK"; not great but not terrible. The paint seems to be done well, but is not an original color and the engine bay was not painted or repaired. Speaking of the engine bay, it has perforated rust near where the fender-wall meets the radiator support (behind headlamp in engine bay). The firewall is rusty and needs some work in order to keep it strong and from deteriorating further. There may be a need to repair some floors, but is' hard to tell due to lots of undercoating.

As the Ad shows, the car doesn't have original wheels, front seats, nor the SU carbs. A sunroof has been added as well.
The B20 is of unknown origin which makes compression test result deciphering difficult, but we can assume that it's a B20A or B. The engine seems like a strong runner based on the seller's many detailed running videos, but because we're 1,000 miles apart it's hard to tell what's what. I will say that I find the owner to be honest and forthcoming.

What do you think the value of this car is? I have my own opinion but will chime in later as to not influence. This was a father/son project car with sentimental value to them, so I'm trying to simultaneously respect that fact while not overpaying.
 

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For what it's worth...

First thing you need to decide is what you'd like to do with the car. Are you looking for a finished driver on which to occasionally turn a wrench, or a drivable project car that you can make your own over time? From the looks of the candidates you've provided, I'll assume you're not looking for a basket case restoration.

The MN car creeps me out for a few reasons, starting with the rust in the firewall and floor areas. If the current owners went so far as to glass in a headlight bucket (easily replaced with salvaged or repro parts), that might speak to the quality of the other body work already accomplished. The fact that the car is in MN says a lot already.

B20/M41 is a nice upgrade, but I'd want to swap the Weber back to SUs.

If I were hunting for another Amazon, I'd hold off on this one and wait until the right one with better bones comes along. You've found some good contenders so far, so you're on the right track.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
For what it's worth...

First thing you need to decide is what you'd like to do with the car. Are you looking for a finished driver on which to occasionally turn a wrench, or a drivable project car that you can make your own over time? From the looks of the candidates you've provided, I'll assume you're not looking for a basket case restoration.

The MN car creeps me out for a few reasons, starting with the rust in the firewall and floor areas. If the current owners went so far as to glass in a headlight bucket (easily replaced with salvaged or repro parts), that might speak to the quality of the other body work already accomplished. The fact that the car is in MN says a lot already.

B20/M41 is a nice upgrade, but I'd want to swap the Weber back to SUs.

If I were hunting for another Amazon, I'd hold off on this one and wait until the right one with better bones comes along. You've found some good contenders so far, so you're on the right track.


Chris

I want to be able to drive the car, safely, immediately upon purchase. After that one criteria, cost is the driver here.
I'll pay more for a car with fewer needs, or less for a car with more needs. Ideally I don't get stuck with surprise body repairs, as I'm a good wrencher but less-so a body man. Simply put, price needs to be commensurate with needs, condition, etc.

The car is quite old, and I have no idea as to if it's been in MN it's entire life. I doubt the owner knows either. The Weber doesn't bother me, but it needs to be acknowledged that it's an unoriginal part that detracts from it's value. The same is true for the missing original parts. While I intend to own whatever I buy for years and years, I'm not looking to overpay for a car that should easily retain it's value from here on out.

Having said all of that, what's your estimate on value?
 

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If it's had rust in so many of the other areas, it'd be a safe assumption that the floors have experienced rot as well; the only question is how they've been repaired (if at all). The perforation at the radiator support (not sure about the degree of rust at the firewall) will require patch weld of some sort or sectional replacement. The owner should be able to provide under-floor mat (carpet) photos to show you the floors. Even if they're solid repairs, you'll still have some structural work left to do elsewhere. While the Weber is easily correctable (but hardly necessary), I'd offer that the most significant missing original part is the steel in the roof. I'm not so sure that the sunroof would be considered an "upgrade" by a lot of Amazonians, but you know what they say about opinions... restoring that would be a bit more involved, obviously.

I should probably defer to the experts, but I think its safe to say that red wagon was a pretty good deal at that price; the red 2-dr seemed to be well priced. Unless you got a friend with a welder, I'd figure that I'd have to back off from any "solid" car value by at least $2K for the structural work; factoring in all the good pieces added, I'd see the price somewhere in the $3-4K range. Hagerty says a '65 2-dr is worth about $4700, but I assume that's without major body work.

Still... I think I'd probably wait if it were me, but you've got a better idea of how much work you want to do. Admittedly, my project scope got out of hand (started with pulling glass for seal replacement and went downhill from there), but was a lot of fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the opinion. That's lower than what I was thinking, but not by tons. I think the seller was under the impression that the body work and paint brought the car's value near the "Excellent" category from Hagerty (that's the tool I used in addition to BaT), and I respectfully disagreed. I think that without the body work the car was a $3k car, and with it maybe $5-6k.

He spent $3400 on the body work and panels, but the unfortunate reality that most of us car guys know is that a labor of love means not getting your coin back 1-for-1.


Thanks,
-Aram
 

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Based on your overall situation, as stated, I would avoid this car for many many reasons.
I suspect there are hidden, along with the obvious, disappointments.

This may interest you...It turns out that the lovely red ‘68 wagon sold recently on BaT is currently in SLC, UT and could be bought for very close to it’s selling price on BaT.
Let me know if you want more info...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Based on your overall situation, as stated, I would avoid this car for many many reasons.
I suspect there are hidden, along with the obvious, disappointments.

This may interest you...It turns out that the lovely red ‘68 wagon sold recently on BaT is currently in SLC, UT and could be bought for very close to it’s selling price on BaT.
Let me know if you want more info...
Thanks for the input. Again, the unoriginality doesn't bother me, but it needs to be priced accordingly. It will likely bother the next person and that means I take a loss in the long run. Anyhow:

Honestly, I'm not keen on the idea of buying from a flipper. I bid $8k because to me that's what it was worth, and assume that based on the Buyer's bidding history, he/she was looking to keep the car. A willingness to sell this soon tells me that there are either problems with the car or the owner is just a 'quick-buck' kind of person. I think I'll hold off for a 2-door.
 

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Honestly, I'm not keen on the idea of buying from a flipper. I bid $8k because to me that's what it was worth, and assume that based on the Buyer's bidding history, he/she was looking to keep the car. A willingness to sell this soon tells me that there are either problems with the car or the owner is just a 'quick-buck' kind of person.
No way you could know from what I wrote, but nothing could be further from the truth...
Auction winner NOT a flipper, nor ANY problems with the car.
Other things can come up, some unexpectedly.
Never mind.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No way you could know from what I wrote, but nothing could be further from the truth...
Auction winner NOT a flipper, nor ANY problems with the car.
Other things can come up, some unexpectedly.
Never mind.
If he/she wants to talk about selling for the auction sale price, I'll entertain that.
No offense meant by my comment. I've had over 20 personal cars, and my experience says that when someone immediately buys and then sells a car, they're usually either flipping or are otherwise unhappy with it. Thanks for mentioning them.
 

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Re: flippers/flipping...

When buying essentially unique stuff (e.g. nice old cars like that red wagon), the least important thing to me is what the seller paid for it.
She’s looking for exactly what she has into it (winning bid + auction fee).

I’ll contact her and maybe you’all can make a deal; the car is in SLC, safe and sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: flippers/flipping...

When buying essentially unique stuff (e.g. nice old cars like that red wagon), the least important thing to me is what the seller paid for it.
She’s looking for exactly what she has into it (winning bid + auction fee).

I’ll contact her and maybe you’all can make a deal; the car is in SLC, safe and sound.
Exactly my own sentiment. I'm interested in paying, at most, the market value.
Thanks again.


Back to your regularly scheduled programming. I've decided to not pursue the car in Minnesota, as the seller adamantly believes that the car is worth no less than $8,500, whereas I was willing to pay $6k or so, tops.
 

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Exactly my own sentiment. I'm interested in paying, at most, the market value.
Thanks again.


Back to your regularly scheduled programming. I've decided to not pursue the car in Minnesota, as the seller adamantly believes that the car is worth no less than $8,500, whereas I was willing to pay $6k or so, tops.
You chose wisely.

With that inner fender perforation and who knows what lurking elsewhere, the car is still a work in progress.

The right one for you is out there...
 

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This looks interesting, and the BEST color for a Amazon.

Just needs a engine with some HP and a M41 with O/D, so with no reserve may go for a song. B20B Engine and M41 Transmission pair are not that hard to find as A LOT of 140's had that combo, and can still be found with diligent searching

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-volvo-122s-20/

EDIT ... Just re read the listing, M41 included. So maybe you just need a pair of SU's and a intake manifold
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
This looks interesting, and the BEST color for a Amazon.

Just needs a engine with some HP and a M41 with O/D, so with no reserve may go for a song. B20B Engine and M41 Transmission pair are not that hard to find as A LOT of 140's had that combo, and can still be found with diligent searching

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1966-volvo-122s-20/

EDIT ... Just re read the listing, M41 included. So maybe you just need a pair of SU's and a intake manifold
Thanks- I saw it this morning. Trust me, I get an automated email from BaT anytime a 122 is listed :) I'm not really looking to do an engine swap, but the M41 would have to go in. And unless someone calls me a dummy, I'd get some DCOE 45's.

I found a few others on Craigslist but they're either very far away and/or not quite...."confidence-inspiring" Ads.



You chose wisely.

With that inner fender perforation and who knows what lurking elsewhere, the car is still a work in progress.

The right one for you is out there...
Thanks. I'm still kind of bummed about it, but know better than to overpay.
 

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With all due respect, without a whole lotta’ appropriately complementary engine and ancillary modifications: Dummy...
 

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I know that MN car. It used to be owned by my friend. B20 runs great and the interior is solid. Body had some funkiness but if the current owner took care of that during paint, it's a solid car.

EDIT: Just saw the $8k-ish price tag. Yikes. Unless you can inspect it in person I'd pass as well.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
With all due respect, without a whole lotta’ appropriately complementary engine and ancillary modifications: Dummy...
I understand the accouterments that go along with it, but fair is fair! Haha.


I know that MN car. It used to be owned by my friend. B20 runs great and the interior is solid. Body had some funkiness but if the current owner took care of that during paint, it's a solid car.

EDIT: Just saw the $8k-ish price tag. Yikes. Unless you can inspect it in person I'd pass as well.

Mike
Yup, it seemed to be a real strong runner, but a hole in the firewall, some 'Meh' bodywork, and several missing original parts is a deal-breaker at that price. New patch panels were installed but not to a particularly high level of quality. Lots of lap joints, panel glue, and filler instead of butt-welding.
 

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Out of curiosity, what region of the country are you in? I've been considering selling mine. I'm reluctantly holding on, but it's becoming increasingly clear that is probably the right decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Out of curiosity, what region of the country are you in? I've been considering selling mine. I'm reluctantly holding on, but it's becoming increasingly clear that is probably the right decision.[/QUOTE

Hi there,

I'm located in Upstate NY. Over the past 20 years I've had several cars shipped to me or did a fly-in/drive home type of deal.
Shoot me a PM if you'd like. I'm still actively looking and pursuing cars, so I'd love to see yours too! Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just following up here, folks. Still looking for a nice 122. I think I've seen everything on Craigslist and Facebook. Message me if you know of anything.
 
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