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Re: (gdill2)

George, didn't you own a few 1800s over the years? If so, could you explain the low voltages in the starting circuit?
 

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Re: (John2x240)

Quote, originally posted by John2x240 »
George, didn't you own a few 1800s over the years? If so, could you explain the low voltages in the starting circuit?

May be battery-related.

George Dill
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Re: (gdill2)

Tried the battery in my daily driver and got same results. Still 10 volts at the starter from the thin ignition red wire.

I'm getting confused now about the jumpstarting and it seems like something you don't want to do wrong. In that high resolution picture I last posted, do I make the connection with a screwdriver between that frayed strap (if that is the correct strap you were speaking of) and the nut to the lower right of it?
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

I personally prefer using one side of a set of jumper cables as already mentioned, but if you're gonna use a screwdriver, make the connection between the nut on the solenoid that has the cable from the battery + terminal and the nut that connects the strap to the solenoid. The best way to do it is to first place the screwdriver on one of the nuts and then firmly slide it over that nut to make contact with the other one. And I say firmly so as not to make hesitant/intermittent contact between the two as that's when you get big fat sparks that may damage the nuts. If you haven't done this before, I suggest you first disconnect the + battery lead at the battery and make a few practice thrusts with the screwdriver until you can make solid contact with both nuts without touching any other metal parts. Once you're comfortable with it, then re-connect the lead at the battery and (as we say here in the Ottawa Valley) "pitter-patter let's get at 'er."
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

No, this is just a test to see if the starter motor will turn the engine over when you jump those two terminals. And just as a thought here, before you do the test make sure that you can you turn the engine over fairly easily by hand (with the gearbox in neutral), just to make sure that it's not an internal mechanical problem in the engine itself.

If it won't turn over at all then the motor is done, if it turns over slowly then it's on it's last legs or it's not getting enough voltage, and if it turns over at a good rate of speed, then the problem is somewhere else. And if it does turn over OK, you could then turn the ignition to "on" and jump it again to see if it will fire up, still with the car in neutral and the parking brake on, etc..

If that works, turn the engine off and try to start it with the key. If it won't start then you most likely have a sticking or failed starter solenoid. Also, if the starter motor runs when you try it by either jumping the two main cable terminals or with the key but doesn't turn the engine over, then there's either insufficient voltage to the starter motor or the starter drive is done.

Maybe I should add a brief re-cap here. The starter assembly consists of an electric motor, the shaft of which also has a sliding pinion gear which, when activated, engages the ring gear on the flywheel thus turning the engine over, and a solenoid. The solenoid does two things when power is fed to it's terminal: the first is that it closes the contacts between the two main terminals which feed power to the starter motor so it will run, and the second is that it activates a lever which moves the starter pinion out along the motor shaft to engage the ring gear. In order to start the car with the key, the motor, the solenoid, and the lever/pinion (the starter drive), must all be in good working order.

Modified by John2x240 at 11:36 PM 7-26-2009
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

With a ratchet and socket on the crank pulley bolt, turn it in the direction of normal rotation, and do at least four full turns (for a four-banger). It should stiffen up a bit as you approach top dead centre on each cylinder, then get a bit easier until you get to the next one at TDC on the compression stroke.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Re: (John2x240)

The engine turns over easily by hand. I tried jumping the two terminals and got a lot of sparks and a pop but nothing else happened. Key was in off position, car in neutral, etc. If I'm not mistaken, something else should have happened correct. I guess this verifies that the starter motor is done?
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

I'd say yes. As I said previously in one of my posts, after you've pulled it out you could try taking it apart and checking the brushes, commutator, and windings to see if it could be fixed, but that'll only get you a some time before it goes again. From the photos it looks like that's a really old starter, so I think getting a new one now would be your best bet. Another afterthought.
You could take it into an auto electric shop and get it tested just to be sure, and most places will do the test for free, but I don't think you'll get a different result than the on-board test you just did.
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

Fairly easy from underneath the car. I replaced a starter in one of my old 140s in a parking lot in front of a bank in a small town about 65 miles from home back in the '80s (I suspected it was on its last legs so I had a good used spare on board). I had to take a chance and rely on just the jack, though, and ever since then if I drive more than 50 miles or so from home in one of my old vehicles I always throw at least one axle stand in the trunk. Anyway, first disconnect the battery, then disconnect all the electric leads to the starter, undo the mounting bolts, and out she comes. Just be aware when you lift it out that they do weigh some, though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Re: (John2x240)

And then is the installation just a matter of bolting it on and reconnecting electrics? I'd expect you have to line up the gears?

And after looking at some videos on youtube, was the key supposed to be all the way ON when jumping the terminals?

Modified by redhotjose9 at 8:35 PM 7-28-2009
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

You don't have to align the gears. Just make sure the flange is seated right before you tighten the bolts - the flange is cast iron and WILL break if you tighten it up not properly seated (no space between the flange and the block).
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

Jumping the two terminals gives a direct feed from the battery so the position of the key would make no difference to the test other than with the key 'on,' if the starter turned over then the engine would have (possibly) started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Re: (John2x240)

Yeah, tried with key ON and still nothing. Starter is now removed from the car. Tried hooking the battery up to the starter and it's for sure dead. So new starter here I come...finally!
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

Quote, originally posted by redhotjose9 »
... So new starter here I come...finally!

It's not all for naught, though; I bet you know your car a lot better now.
http://********************/smile/emthup.gif
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Re: (John2x240)

Oh sooo much better! I just wish I could've realized sooner I needed a new starter so I could've gotten some more work done on it. But put the starter on late tonight and after pumping it with some gas it fired up!

I was unbelievably satisfied!
 

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Re: (redhotjose9)

Quote, originally posted by redhotjose9 »
Oh sooo much better! I just wish I could've realized sooner I needed a new starter so I could've gotten some more work done on it. But put the starter on late tonight and after pumping it with some gas it fired up!

I was unbelievably satisfied!

Way to go!

Where was the fence when the car started?

George Dill
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Re: (gdill2)

Haha same place it was when the car stopped starting. Right in front of it after it's little "head on collision". Took it for a spin today and it's great besides the exhaust leak in the cabin and the transmission still crunching when going into first and reverse
 
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