SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner

1 - 20 of 74 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey all,

You know the jist, I want to share, you want to comment, so I am starting a thread. I am not calling it a build thread yet cause I literally have no idea how far I am going to take this platform. Anywhere from some bushings to built block/big boost could be in the future. I am just not sure what kind of time/money will be put into this thing.

History: My wife and I (both 26 currently) have 2 kids, one just about 6 and one at 9 months. We don't get out a lot due to the 9 month old and babysitting costs being outrageous in my opinion. My wife and I one day realized that we needed to do something together that was for both of us and interested us both. Luckily I found the right angle: on her bucket list since she was 12 she has wanted to drive a manual car. The search began with Miata's, with a budget of 3k. We found a few that were in meh condition and decided that to do stage 0 for a miata in the 150k range would take another 1k or so, so we increased the budget to around 6k. We drove a few 6k miatas and just were not satisfied with the interior/driving dynamics and decided that we would need to do suspension and at a minimum get some boost on the 6k miata to make it a fun date car. So we increased the budget to 8k.

I am an avid Volvo owner. My family has had ~15 volvo's and well over 1 million miles in Volvo's. We typically buy them 1 year old and around 10k miles and drive them through 80-90k and sell. My first car was a 960, then I got my S80 (i was a black sheep and got an Infiniti G35 there in the middle, which was fun but no family conducive). Traded in a G35 on the XC60. Logically I was looking in the 8k range for S60R's, because they already have a turbo, 300 crank hp (which a miata will rarely see with stock internals for more than one dyno pull) great suspension setup stock, etc.

The car: I imported a NATIONWIDE search of all S60R's being posted on craigslist/cars/autotrader/ebay (thanks searchtempest RSS feeds). There really aren't that many being listed. I filtered/sorted/watched/waited for nearly 4 months between miatas and S60R's. With cash in hand I was ready to jump at a moments notice. As this was going to be a third car I had no real timeline, but i knew what I wanted.

Then it was posted on craigslist. 2007 (last year) passion/nordkap (my G was red/black so I love dark interiors) 1-owner non-smoker S60R 6 speed (necessary lol) with 97k miles. No sport kit (my wife would destroy it so wasnt a box to check) and no sunroof, no nav. Not exactly "loaded" but optioned nicely with all the cold weather stuff in case we need to use it in the winter (it won't be a garage queen, no worries there). I was skeptical at first but in talking more and more I got some key information out of the shop that had maintained the car: They had JUST replaced the struts, front and rear brake pads, clutch, all fluids, ignition wires/spark plugs and tested the turbo as 9.2/10 for condition with little shaft play (its almost 100k miles so I was totally ok with that). The timing belt was not changed according to the shop since it was a 120k service interval item Total Bill: $5722. WOW.

Backstory is the guy is a doctor, bought a new car and was going to sell this to his brother and wanted it to be in top condition to sell it to him. Brother freaked at the repair bill and ended up going in a different direction. So the doc had the shop post it up. After inspections via a third party guy (described as 8/10 condition because NYC suspensions was "loose" (read: bushings are done for), I flew with 10k cash to NYC to buy it. It was in ideal condition minus a few items:
1) The rear bumper had a chip about the size of the edge of a quarter on it
2) The rear left wheel was missing the centercap
3) The front right tire looked to be driven on when flat, but held air (at the time).

Bonus: in the trunk I found (was not in pics from inspector):
1) An extra 18" peg wheel
2) Two extra winter tires used maybe 100 miles; essentially brand new.

Otherwise it was clean (DIRTY car on the inside, but nothing a detail and a vacuum couldn't solve), the serial numbers on the struts matched up with OEM, no CEL's, the AWD worked (As far as I can tell, the rear tire spins when front is spun on lift, no burning out front tires, etc.). So I paid him asking price and taped the car up and drove it home 18.5 hours. The inspector was right, the thing hops from side to side when going over bumps, but otherwise the car is PERFECTLY what we wanted.

So it got home, titled, registered, etc. etc., named it Charmander (license plate in the mail), and did a surface cleaning to get the dirt off the interior console/dash, etc. Took 15 minutes and looks new (seriously). Not a dent/scratch anywhere except the stainless trim on the driver door. It seems his watch or something hit it about 100 times, will need to be replaced eventually.

So stage 0 begins (as best I can tell most of the work has been done).

We kept losing air in the left front tire over like 7 days, then 5, then 2, so I took the wheel off and did the dunk test in my kids pool. Nothing from the front, bubbles from the back, turn it over and its a bent rim. Bummer. I don't know whether it happened after I took posession or whether it happened before. Considering the tire looked like it had been driven on flat I suspect it was missed by my inspector. For the saved $$$ I just consider it the price to pay to have a used car. $100 and I should be back on the road.

So as it sits here is what has been done:
Cleaned interior and gave the car a bath, polished wheels.
Cleaned leather - needs full leatherique application but the cracks are nearly invisible, no tears.
Cleaned engine bay - checked for new wires/plugs/oil/etc. All looked brand new as described by the shop. Intake filter was literally brand new (Manufacture date was march 2014). Gapped the plugs to OEM spec (most were within hundredths of an inch). The only concern here is the charge pipe across the motor on the top has obviously melted the fire blanket on the hood and has an UGLY black mark right on the top. Advice here welcome. Also the coolant was not new (called shop and they said it looked "fine" to them. It is a bit off color so I will be draining and refilling the coolant system.
Took off wheel and saw bend (estimated 1/8 bend on the inside, should be an easy fix for AWRS).

So there he sits, just waiting for his owner to call AWRS and schedule an appointment to get fixed. I suspect I will replace the tire too but it seems to be holding air and there are no rubber shards on the inside. It is an Eagle F1 asymmetric, which I would NEVER buy because they are so loud. I am having a hard time not letting this spiral into 2 or 4 new tires with balancing and selling off the mismatched tires (rear are about 60% there plain Eagle F1's, fronts 90% there EF1 asymmetric).

Other than that I am just reading up about the "sensitivities" of the car and making a mods list. I like to enjoy the cars I own so mods will likely come in slowly. Being a 3rd car will help with doing the projects the right way and not rushing the installs.

Plans include:
Finish stage 0 as applicable to this car.
Timing belt replacement, buy bumper cover towing cap (paint), buy new wheel centercaps (will just get 4 probably).
Replace all bushings as needed (anyone with a diagram of all the bushings on the car? I know there have to be hundreds). Figure out if any other suspension components need replacement.

Then:
Swaybars/endlinks
Alignment

Then:
FMIC - practical use more important than looks here, I want to see IAT's down as far as possible.
Tune - I am a dyno tune guy so we will see what I can pull together, might have to yank the rear drive shaft and get someone out here to tune it. No can tunes here.
Turbo - depends on what limits I want. The hybrid K24 looks like a good choice with the 11-blade for starters.
650cc injectors
External Wastegate

Then:
Race wheels/tires for autox/road racing
More suspension, chassis bracing

Then (maybe if we lose the motor or decide its "time"):
Sleeves, pistons, rods, head refresh, block refresh
Bigger turbo (At least 20g)
Oil/Angle gear cooling
Supporting mods - ECU total replacement (aem, pro-efi or similar), hardened block/drivetrain, etc. etc.
Goal here would be around 700awhp.

I am an engineer and I know my way around pretty much ever component on this car or can learn quickly. I have completely torn down and rebuilt multiple motors for a volunteering organization I am a part of through church (we fix catastrphic failures on cars for free, church pays the parts, we volunteer the labor) I plan on getting VIDA/Dice pretty quickly as it seems vital to diagnose issues and take apart/replace components on the car. That said I have not seen more than a block out of a car for the R.

Any advice is always welcome, I have a few pics but work blocks access so I will have to add them from home tonight.

Thanks for reading, and feel free to pass along knowledge or links to threads that might be beneficial. I have read through probably 1000 threads thus far since I have been a member and look forward to seeing what direction it takes. I will see if I can convince my wife to join as well, she is just as interested in learning the in's and out's of the caR as I am. Looking forward to what the future has for this caR!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
Panty Melter Passion Red is a start! Lucky!

A good down pipe, exhaust, and intake would be a good start. So many options based on so many opinions!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,564 Posts
Nice story. You definitely got a good find! I've never tried it myself, but I heard a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser removes those marks easily from the charge air pipe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,377 Posts
Nice story. You definitely got a good find! I've never tried it myself, but I heard a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser removes those marks easily from the charge air pipe.
I have used it and it works pretty well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sitting waiting for rim fix:

Parking lot with wife driving!:

Wife the minute I got it home:

One minute after taking the keys:



Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,385 Posts
One minute after taking the keys:

I'm not sure why, but there is something comical and seemingly ironic about the first photo (of you owning car) is at a gas station...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not sure why, but there is something comical and seemingly ironic about the first photo (of you owning car) is at a gas station...
And look at those ridiculous gas prices (NYC lol)!

Yeah I bought it with about 1/4 tank and was about to drive FOREVER so I decided to fill up. Reading the owners manual to see what gas I needed was pretty funny, was a 10 minute fill up for sure.

Which begs the question, I filled with 87 cause it says its ok and it was fine for the highway, but everyone here is like 93 or death. Are these cars really that picky? I have put in 91 since getting into town and it seems completely fine...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,564 Posts
It'll run on 87, but from what I've heard, noticeably worse.

The way I see it is that these are very nice cars and deserve quality gas that's the proper octane. It's likely less than the price of a cup of coffee each fill up. A small price to pay for clean gas and better performance IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
Please don't use 87 octane in any high pressure turbo car. You'll cause detonation... If you can't afford to put proper fuel in your vehicle, then you have no place driving that car. Sorry if it sounds mean, but it's true.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Why would they allow it, then?

Obviously the car senses knock and retards timing, I literally work in fueling/gasoline engineering for a living so I probably have more knowledge on the actual fuel itself than most. I have a pretty comprehensive knowledge of HPT engines as well.

I am not asking for advice on what type to put in, I am asking purely from an owners manual perspective. Why would they say its ok if it's not? It ran perfectly fine with 87 fuel cruising at 75 in 6th gear for 1200 miles. Even had solid torque for passing and getting up mountains at 6%.

Also my token quote is littered about this and other forums: "If you smoke fine cigars, you shoudn't worry about the price of matches". I think I'll put it in my sig :).

And now everyone thinks I am a dick cause I am responding harshly.

That said, the car is going to be put through the paces and will be a city car, so whatever the highest octane I can find will be put in the car. Likely BP 93 octane.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
It "allows" driving for a very short period of time until you find the required gas. For example, if you run out of gas on the side of the road, and someone offers some 87 octane from their tank. I don't think you're a dick at all, I think you're a fool for buying a car that requires premium gas and putting in 87 because it can tolerate it... The mileage gained by using 93 over 87 is about what you will save by using 87.... Also, the owners manual clearly states 91 minimum, but use of 87 as an exception is allowed and will not damage engine. It doesn't state that constantly running 87 octane is fine. Also when you open the gas door, you'll see the warning stating premium gas required. Idk what more to tell you. Respond in any way you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It "allows" driving for a very short period of time until you find the required gas. For example, if you run out of gas on the side of the road, and someone offers some 87 octane from their tank. I don't think you're a dick at all, I think you're a fool for buying a car that requires premium gas and putting in 87 because it can tolerate it... The mileage gained by using 93 over 87 is about what you will save by using 87.... Also, the owners manual clearly states 91 minimum, but use of 87 as an exception is allowed and will not damage engine. It doesn't state that constantly running 87 octane is fine. Also when you open the gas door, you'll see the warning stating premium gas required. Idk what more to tell you. Respond in any way you want.
My owners manual states: Volvo recommends premium for best performance, but using 87 octane or above will not affect engine reliability.

What you have indicated is in direct contrast to this phrasing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Consumption is higher and power output lower for fuel with an octane rating of 91 RON. But believe what you want.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/187869/Volvo-S60r.html?page=231


Also everyone else, I guess we are all wrong and he's right. Let's all switch to 87 and save some money...
So what you are saying is that a fuel with less energy content per volume gives you less mileage AND reduced performance? Please inform me on petrol as a petroleum engineer for a petroleum company... Frankly you ARE getting more energy per gallon with 87 than 93 if the difference is 20 cents. Actual energy content is approximately 2-3% different between the two, which in $3.50 world would justify $3.60 not $3.70 at the pump. So literally you are wrong, but I digress...

The facts are:

Car can run without reliability issues on 87 per Volvo's own manual.
Mileage and performance take a hit because you get less energy per explosion.
Volvo recommends 91 for the car for best performance, but establishes 87 as a minimum.
My car ran fine through mountainous terrain in 6th gear with no noticeable misfire on 87.

As I said my car will only get the best. So the point is (yet still since like the OP) moot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
Wow you come off as a cocky bastard don't you? haha. The saddest part is that you work in that field and still are running crappy gas in your high pressure turbo engine... Start running it in the summertime and see what happens when the IATs and BATs go up and knocking ensues. Don't come bitching here about cracked cylinder walls.

Your argument is idiotic because you're assuming the ECU uses the same amount of fuel with each grade. In fact, when it detects knock, it retards timing and riches out the mixture to fight detonation. In your case, I bet your AFRs are super rich under any sort of boost, thus you're using way more gas.

But obviously a petroleum engineer who works for a petroleum company knows more about petroleum than someone who isn't a petroleum engineer working for a petroleum company with petroleum. Did I mention petroleum? Oh I didn't? petroleum!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,901 Posts
I figure the cost of running premium gas vs. lower grade is about $180/yr.. That is figured driving 12,000 miles per year, 20 miles per gallon, with a $.30 difference between grades. That is about $3.50 per week. To me, using the higher grade is a no brainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow you come off as a cocky bastard don't you?
Heh, I'll send the lol's right back at you for your comprehensive knowledge of ECU fuel mapping and compensation.

Fact: Mpg difference between 87 on the highway and 91 on the highway in my car on ~similar interstate highways: 1.2 mpg, nearly the exact percent less energy content! Imagine that!

Obviously if I am driving around like I am in a police chase all the time I am going to use higher octane gas. Hell for track days in my G35 I used 100. It also specified a minimum 87 and recommended 91. I ran 91 in it because I tend to be heavy on the throttle.

I will log timing and IAT's on both types of gas for an entire drive during everyday city driving like a normal person and we will see whats what. I bet with exacting similar conditions keeping the throttle "normal" nothing is going to be different, even a quick highway entrance won't get the gas to predetonate due to the block being cool enough not to heatsoak in 15 seconds.

I will argue until my point is heard: There is absolutely negative to using 87 in our cars in stock form unless you are doing spirited driving enough to get the engine really hot. For road trips and long hauls, I will absolutely put in 87. Don't buy my car used!!!

I don't see a "oops i put in 87 and my car blew up" thread anywhere, I am searching and searching!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
Read this in a friendly voice:
10passionred is right. Lower octane fuel will not hurt. It will decrease power and gas mileage, but modem cars with computerized ignition can work any any octane fuel so long as it is in range. Above the recommended highest mostly yields wasted money, but there are times when it may help with detonation, but unless tuned for it, it will not improve performance. Too low and then the system cannot retard the timing enough to compensate. Then you are risking it. Older cars with no active knock sensors or simple points ignition are not smart enough to compensate.

Sent from my rotor-dial phone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,491 Posts
Welcome! Ill add my anecdotal experience having owned many turbo Volvos....and having some knowledge of cars, etc. My experience has been that lower octane wont blow up/damage/cause a sinkhole to open up and swallow your car. It will cause slightly lower mileage, and a noticeable reduction in power. Again, that's based on my experiences with VR, SR, (2) 855's, (2) XC70's, and even an old 745 turbo (bought new by mom back in the day). Again, just my experiences (and others in the family), but has proven to be consistently true over the years.

Generally, I run 91 in all of our cars, even the old Ford, as I run the timing pretty far advanced and it has a big cam....

Having said that, if I was running lower octane, I wouldn't beat on it in 90 degree heat going uphill... ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,563 Posts
Wow, 1st thread about your new car and already you got in a fight!

I like this guy!
 
1 - 20 of 74 Posts
Top