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“Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company "

Really...<p><br>GM’s Rebuff of Beijing Auto Opel Bid May Come From China Threat<p>July 24 (Bloomberg) -- Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co., the fastest-growing carmaker in China, may have its success to blame for the failure to buy General Motors Corp.’s Opel unit.<p>“Beijing Auto is on the rise and GM has no interest in strengthening a rival in China,” said Zhu Xuedong, an analyst at Industrial Securities in Shanghai. “The center of gravity in the industry is shifting to China.”<p>Beijing Auto’s bid for Ruesselsheim, Germany-based Opel offered more cash and asked for less government aid than those of Magna International Inc. and RHJ International SA. Beijing Auto’s bid failed because it could not come to an agreement with General Motors over intellectual property rights to car designs and technology, Chairman Xu Heyi said today in Beijing.<p>“GM was worried that if they gave us the intellectual property rights, it will impact their position in China and hurt their relationships with existing partners,” Xu said.<p>China, where GM is the largest overseas automaker, is set to surpass the U.S. as the world’s largest auto market this year as government subsidies and tax cuts help companies avoid the worst of a global meltdown in vehicle sales.<p>Beijing Auto’s venture with Hyundai Motor Co. sold 257,003 vehicles in the first half, a 56 percent jump. In contrast, GM’s sales in the market rose 38 percent to 814,442 vehicles<p>The Chinese company’s venture with Daimler AG, the world’s second-largest luxury-car maker, broke even last year for the first time, helped by the country’s rising demand for premium sedans.<p>Getting Stronger<p>“Chinese automakers are getting stronger day by day,” said Yu Bing, an analyst with Pingan Securities Co. “Foreign automakers will see some real competition coming from Chinese rivals as they are growing in sales volume and also making progress in technology and brand recognition.”<p>GM, partnered with Chinese automaker SAIC Motor Corp., expects the Chinese car market to increase at least 5 percent and probably almost 10 percent a year for the next several years, Nick Reilly, GM’s Asia-Pacific President, said in a Bloomberg TV interview on July 17. He will take over all of GM’s operations outside of North America next month.<p>GM spokesman Chris Preuss declined to comment yesterday.<p>Beijing Auto offered 660 million euros ($940 million) for a 51 percent stake of Opel. The bid required 2.64 billion euros in government loan guarantees, 40 percent less than Magna’s.<p>Under Magna’s revised proposal, its partnership with OAO Sberbank would invest about 500 million euros for a combined 55 percent stake in Opel. The proposal calls for 4.5 billion euros in loan guarantees from European governments. RHJ offered about 275 million euros investment and asked for state loan guarantees of about 3.8 billion euros in exchange for a 50.1 percent stake. GM will continue talks with Magna and RHJ, it said in a statement yesterday. Beijing Auto was excluded, the German government said.<p>Record Sales<p>Beijing Auto had record sales, revenue and profit this year. The company’s profit surged 78 percent in the first half from a year earlier to 2.48 billion yuan ($363 million). Sales rose 28 percent to 582,215 vehicles. The company aims to triple vehicles sales to 3 million and have revenue of 300 billion yuan by 2015, Xu said today.<p>Beijing Hyundai Motor Co.’s Elantra Yuedong car was the second best selling model in China in the first half, trailing GM’s Excelle by 1,160 units, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers. The Elantra was the 10th best selling car in the country last year.<p>Huge Gap<p>The failure to buy Opel may end up helping Beijing Auto. Previous attempts by Chinese carmakers to expand abroad have not been successful. SAIC Motor Corp.’s South Korean unit, the biggest foreign acquisition by a Chinese carmaker, entered receivership in February, hurt by labor disputes and plunging sport-utility vehicle sales.<p>“Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company and even if they got Opel, they would encounter a lot of difficulties due to the huge gap between Beijing Auto and Opel in both technology and management,” said Vivien Chan, an analyst at Sinpopac Securities Asia Ltd. in Hong Kong. “It would be more useful for them to take over other automakers inside of China to help with their expansion at the current stage.”<br>
 

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Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (philisophe)

Note that the source of the quote comes from Hong Kong, not US or Europe. <p>
 

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Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (Needsdecaf)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Needsdecaf</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Note that the source of the quote comes from Hong Kong, not US or Europe. <p></TD></TR></TABLE><p>So?<p>The SS is a living proof of how many people in US keep their heads in their a$$e$ and do not pay attention to what is going on around the world till it is too late...
 

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Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (philisophe)

I heard that if GM sells Opel to the Chinese it will compete directly with GM in China which is making profit. GM doesn't want this to happen as their China operation is very close to Opel in engineering. Safer to keep Opel in Europe/Russia.
 

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Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (gascos80)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SS is a living proof of how many people in US keep their heads in their a$$e$ and do not pay attention to what is going on around the world till it is too late...</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I agree, there are some wacky people on this forum.<p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>gascos80</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can I add a choice<p>"Hard enough" <p>tested by pressing your thumb against the side wall.<p>I drive cars since 1973 and this method works rather well.<p>What's the difference? Tire is a tire is a tire...</TD></TR></TABLE><p><A HREF="http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/tire-safety.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.insure.com/car-insu....html</A><p>
 

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Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (TMonk)

Thank you for being so concerned about my well being, but I believe that I have an ability (so as the most people of normal intelligence and tactile sensitivity) to detect 25% of deflation by observing tire deformation and testing the resistance of the side wall with the thumb.<p>I do go to the nearest available air pump, when visual and tactile tests indicate any significant deflation.<p>Measuring actual pressure reading of a tire that apparently fully inflated seems to be excessive.<p>That's all, bro'
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: “Chinese automakers don’t have the capability to run a European company " (gascos80)

Beijing Auto Withdraws Opel Bid<br>07-24 11:55 Caijing<p>Beijing Auto was the high bidder in the Opel auction with an offer of 660 million euros.<p><br>By staff reporter Liang Dongmei<p>(Caijing.com.cn) Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co, China's fifth-largest automaker by sales, has withdrawn its offer for GM's Opel brand after failing to reach an agreement over the transfer of Opel's intellectual property rights, a Beijing Auto official told Caijing on July 23.<p>GM has said only that it will go forward with the two other bidders, Canadian auto parts maker Magna International and RHJ International, a Brussels-based investment company, without giving a reason for excluding Beijing Auto. Magna has won the endorsement of the German federal government.<p>Beijing Auto, the Chinese joint venture partner of Daimler AG and South Korea's Hyundai Motor, was the high bidder in the Opel auction with an offer of 660 million euros. It also offered GM the prospect of retaining 49 percent, the most of any of the bids, while asking the German government for the lowest loan guarantee of 2.6 billion euros.<p>The failure of the Beijing Auto bid reflects lingering skepticism over Chinese automakers' lack of international operating experience and the ability to successfully integrate large foreign acquisitions. Beijing Auto's focus on technology transfer also likely roused the suspicions of the German government and unions, whose main interest is preserving jobs in Europe. A successful Beijing Auto bid for Opel would also likely have complicated GM's operations in China, where its main partner is SAIC.<p>Beijing Auto has been linked with bids for car brands being discarded by restructuring major automakers, including Volvo and Saab. The frenzy of bid activity suggests a desire to expand rapidly in order to qualify as a "national champion" in China's auto industry consolidation. China wants to shrink its car industry to a maximum of three automakers with capacity of 2 million units a year by 2011 and a maximum of five automakers with annual capacity of 1 million units<p>Beijing government-owned Beijing Auto is the parent of Beiqi Foton Motor Co. Ltd. (SSE: 600166).<p>1 yuan = 14 U.S.cents<p>Full article in Chinese: <A HREF="http://www.caijing.com.cn/2009-07-24/110213584.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.caijing.com.cn/2009....html</A><br>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
MANAGEMENT DISPUTE....Just Beat your GM

BEIJING - Some 30,000 Chinese steelworkers clashed with police in a protest over plans to merge their mill with another company and beat the company's general manager to death, a human rights monitor said Saturday.<p>Several hundred people were injured in the clash Friday in the northeastern city of Tonghua, the Hong Kong-based Information Center for Human Rights and Democracy said in a faxed statement.<p>Employees of Tonghua Iron and Steel Group object to plans for Jianlong Steel take control of the company, the center said. It said Beijing-based Jianlong controlled the company temporarily last year, and employees blame Jianlong for financial problems suffered at the time.<p>Angry Tonghua employees attacked Jianlong general manager Chen Guojun during the protest and beat him to death, the center said. It said friends of Chen confirmed he was dead.<p>Workers were angry that Chen was paid some 3 million yuan ($438,000) last year while some retirees received as little as 200 yuan ($29) a month, the center said.<p>Beijing is trying to streamline China's sprawling steel industry, the world's largest, by orchestrating a series of mergers aimed at creating globally competitive producers. The mergers often are accompanied by layoffs that sometimes spark complaints that workers receive too little severance pay.<p>A woman who answered the phone Saturday at the government office for the Tonghua district where the steel company is located confirmed a protest occurred Friday but said she had no details of deaths or arrests. She refused to give her name.<p>A man who answered the phone at the Tonghua city hall said provincial government and Communist Party leaders had taken charge of handling complaints by Tonghua employees. He would give only his surname, Xu.<p>Phone calls to the Tonghua company headquarters and local party offices were not answered.<p>Jianlong took over Tonghua last year but suffered losses after steel prices dropped and jettisoned the company, the human rights monitor said. It said Jianlong revived the takeover plan this year after steel prices rebounded, making the business profitable again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Globe

<p>News from The Globe and Mail<br>Chinese car makers target foreign-made cachet<p>00:00 EDT Monday, July 27, 2009<p>BEIJING -- When little-known Chinese car company Tengzhong made its bid to buy the Hummer brand from General Motors earlier this year, many in China raised eyebrows even before regulators bogged the deal down in red tape.<p>"We have been doing business with Hummer for about three or four years. In the beginning, it sold well. But in recent years, it hasn't done well," said Liu Bin, a manager at Beijing's Tonghua Xingye dealership, which sells Hummer alongside BMW, Ferrari and Bentley. "It is a bit silly - it's kind of showing off and flaunting."<p>Yet it's the kind of foreign-brand status that Chinese car manufacturers appear to be seeking as they capitalize on the struggles of companies like GM by bidding for their brands.<p>At stake is the giant and growing Chinese market for passenger cars, which has now surpassed even the U.S. market. Chinese industry analysis shows that about 33 million additional cars are expected to hit China's roads between 2008 and 2010.<p>In a country of 1.3 billion people with a rapidly expanding middle class, it's no wonder both foreign and domestic car manufacturers are looking to China as their saving grace at a time when car sales in the rest of the world are flat or contracting.<p>"It will make this country a very lucrative market for auto producers of the whole world," one China-based analyst said.<p>"For foreign companies, if they don't have a China strategy, they don't have a global strategy for foreign competition," said Zhang Yu, China analyst for auto market forecaster CSM Worldwide.<p>The Chinese government's four trillion yuan ($636.2-billion) stimulus package unveiled last November also includes incentives for consumers to buy their first cars or upgrade their old ones, a measure that has helped drive car sales to record levels. Sales figures show 874,000 cars were sold in June in China, up 48.5 per cent from the same period last year and an increase on the previous month's sales of 829,100.<p>The rush by foreign car makers into China has come at a cost for Chinese manufacturers, who find consumers with the financial means to do so will still turn to foreign-branded cars before Chinese models, largely due to their reputation for quality.<p>In this tough competitive market, profit margins are increasingly slim.<p>Beijing Automotive Industry Corp., controlled by the government, had been one of the bidders - against rivals Magna International Inc. of Aurora, Ont., the original bidder, and Brussels-based RHJ International - for GM's Opel unit. But it failed to secure a deal last week.<p>The much-trumpeted Hummer deal also appears to be on the rocks, caught up with government regulators, some of whom are thought to frown upon the purchase of a gas-guzzling line of military-style vehicles at a time when the country is focused on improving its environment.<p>"Everybody in China is facing the same competition problems. The market is growing, but it's increasingly difficult to make money there," said John Bonnell, the Bangkok-based director of Asia-Pacific forecasting for J.D. Power and Associates.<p>"Profits are falling by the wayside. There's a lot of players and the profits just aren't there."<p>By bidding for foreign makers, Chinese companies hope to acquire both the technology and cachet that will find appeal in the domestic market.<p>Earlier this month, Beijing Automotive delivered a non-binding bid for 51 per cent of Opel, offering €660-million ($1.01-billion) in a takeover that would be heavily focused on the transfer of Opel's technology to Chinese plants. The deal was briefly seen as promising but has since been eclipsed by offers from its two rivals.<p>Somewhat more promising is a bid for Ford's Volvo division by China's Geely Holding Group Co., which has hired as one of its advisers former Volvo executive Hans-Olav Olsson.<p>Geely, one of China's top 10 domestic car producers, is expected to offer a final bid of around $2-billion (U.S.) this month.<p>And more Chinese bids for foreign auto makers are expected as further opportunities arise.<p>"The crisis is attacking the auto industry, but also bringing opportunities to Chinese car makers," said Li Chunbo, an auto analyst with Beijing-based CITIC Securities.<p>As the top-name car makers see their status drop, other Chinese manufacturers are seeing their profiles improve, he added.<p>"Chinese companies are joining these bids because they are short of confidence in their technology and management systems. ... As a Chinese car brand, it is very hard to get into the market in foreign countries," he said.<p>Efforts by leading Chinese car manufacturers like Geely and Chery Automobile Co. to unveil their own made-in-China luxury cars have largely fallen flat, as evidenced in car dealerships in the country's major centres.<p>"In my opinion, there are no real luxury cars produced by domestic car brands so far in China.<p>"They mainly produce cars to meet the needs of ordinary consumers," said Guo Yong, a financial manager at the Beichen Yayuncun Auto Trading Centre in Beijing. What's left is for such companies to try to capitalize on foreign offerings - putting in offers for companies like Opel and Volvo in hopes of gaining new technology or a management style that will give them a competitive edge at home, as well as a way into the global market.<p>However, until the industry begins to consolidate or until government policy changes, analysts warn further bids on foreign brands may follow the route of the Hummer bid, since the formal government position is to encourage companies to buy technology or suppliers, rather than foreign brands.<p>"I think they're always going to hit that question of what's the benefit to the company, what are they going to learn, what technological abilities are they going to acquire.<p>"At the end of the day, they're just taking on a car company that is struggling in the global market," J.D. Power's Mr. Bonnell said.<p>"I think when they look closer, they'll find it's a tough haul and they'll find it hard to compete in that."<p>© The Globe and Mail<p> * News<br> * Stock<br> <br>
 

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Re: MANAGEMENT DISPUTE....Just Beat your GM (philisophe)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>philisophe</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Somewhat more promising is a bid for Ford's Volvo division by China's Geely Holding Group Co., <b>which has hired as one of its advisers former Volvo executive Hans-Olav Olsson.</b><p>Geely, one of China's top 10 domestic car producers, is expected to offer a final bid of around $2-billion (U.S.) this month.</TD></TR></TABLE>
 

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Re: MANAGEMENT DISPUTE....Just Beat your GM (MrTippy)

Amazing and now the Chinese are down sizing their steel industry, shrinking their auto industry manufacturers and at the same time offering stimulus packages to consumers to buy foreign cars to the determent of their own domestic market.<p><B><I>philisophe</I> wrote above...</B><p><I>"Everybody in China is facing the same competition problems. The market is growing, but it's increasingly difficult to make money there," said John Bonnell, the Bangkok-based director of Asia-Pacific forecasting for J.D. Power and Associates.<p>"Profits are falling by the wayside. There's a lot of players and the profits just aren't there."<p>By bidding for foreign makers, Chinese companies hope to acquire both the technology and cachet that will find appeal in the domestic market.<p>"Chinese companies are joining these bids because they are short of confidence in their technology and management systems. ... As a Chinese car brand, it is very hard to get into the market in foreign countries," he said.<p>Efforts by leading Chinese car manufacturers like Geely and Chery Automobile Co. to unveil their own made-in-China luxury cars have largely fallen flat, as evidenced in car dealerships in the country's major centres.<p>There are no real luxury cars produced by domestic car brands so far in China.</I>
 

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Re: MANAGEMENT DISPUTE....Just Beat your GM (stev vanveit)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>stev vanveit</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Amazing and now the Chinese are down sizing their steel industry, shrinking their auto industry manufacturers and at the same time offering stimulus packages to consumers to buy foreign cars to the determent of their own domestic market.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>They are following the US model...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Mullay Speaks

<p><br><A HREF="http://industry.bnet.com/auto/10002005/fords-alan-mulally-talks-about-the-road-to-recovery" TARGET="_blank">http://industry.bnet.com/auto/...overy</A>/
 

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The door opens for Chinese and Indian cars<br> <br><A HREF="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2009/07/the-door-opens-for-chinese-and-indian-cars.html" TARGET="_blank">http://latimesblogs.latimes.co....html</A><p>Would you buy a car from a brand you’ve never heard of? A new study says 15% of people would do just that. It’s a study that gives hope to manufacturers in China and India who hope to bring their vehicles to the United States. The study of more than 30,000 new car and truck buyers was done by the automotive research firm AutoPacific. <p>“Not only are a significant number of people willing to consider Chinese and Indian brands, this group consists of highly desirable buyers who would be coveted by any manufacturer. They tend to be young, well-educated, and affluent for their age and have good jobs in administrative, healthcare and middle management positions,” said George Peterson, president of AutoPacific. <p>Before you scoff at this idea, remember that at one time no one in this country had heard of Toyota, Kia or Volkswagen.<p>-- Doug Stewart
 
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