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Wagon lover here. Owner of 1997 960 in its beautiful boxy glory, and a 2008 XC70, which I consider to be a slightly raised wagon. If I was in the market for a new vehicle and Volvo did not sell large boxy wagons, I'd move to another brand (E320?) before buying an SUV. V60 is too small for my use--have kids and like a big trunk for whatever I may have to carry. V90 is beautiful but problematic due to reduced cargo area. One only needs to look at the cargo areas of parked Volvo wagons, especially older ones, to see how often they are carrying stuff.

It is ironic that the utility is arguable higher in a large boxy wagon than an SUV. Some reasons: Actual dimensions of width and length of cargo area is usually larger, especially in length; the height at which one has to carry stuff to get it into the trunk is lower (big advantage for heavy items); and it's much easier to get stuff up onto the roof. I frequently carry kayaks, lumber, bikes, etc. I would hate to lug two kayaks onto the roof of an XC90. In terms of drivability, I prefer a lower center of gravity for better handling and security, and the reduced wind resistance and turbulence susceptibility. I also find, with the 8+ inches of ground clearance, snow tires, and excellent AWD system, that the XC70 is a phenomenal snow vehicle that provides more stability than SUVs which tend to be more top-heavy.

It seems that today's SUVs are in many ways yesterday's minivans with 4 doors and more "rugged" looks. Meanwhile the wagons are frequently carrying gear both inside and out, and are the more pure utility vehicles for the reasons mentioned above. Too bad more Americans don't get it. I have a feeling that if wagons were just invented as a better alternative to the SUV, they would get a lot of buzz.
 

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Interesting. I haven't traveled as much as of late so I haven't rented as many cars lately, but when I did, car rentals were almost exclusively some boring generic GM or Ford vehicles.

I did get an NA 3.2 S80 as a rental once in like 2010, but that was some weird fluke. Other than that I've never seen a Volvo as a rental in the U.S.
If you use rental agencies like Sixt, Volvos (S60s included) are very common. But virtually all the rental agencies have a mid-sized premium sedan category, that they fill with the BMW 3-series, whatever Merc is in that class, the now discontinued entry level Jag, and the S60.
 

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Sadly, the sales figures say it all. The lone standout is the S60.

Also worth noting is that Volvo had positive sales growth across the entire line-up DURING the pandemic. That's actually kind of impressive.

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Yes, but... look at those YOY increases for both the V60 and V90. With the exception of the S90, those two show the largest percentage gains and point (hopefully?) to more SUV/crossover shoppers coming to their senses.
 

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I know I dont see many S90's thats for sure. I just want a wagon AWD. But if they drop the 90, I wonder if they'll bring it back on the V60?
I've seen more S90s and S60s. There seem to be a few V90s where I live, in New England - at least as many as there are V60s. Both are overshadowed by the SUVs.

I ordered a V60 CC because the bigger size wasn't a necessity and because I could get a Bowers and Wilkins within my budget. When considering the V90 my wife asked why, when for the same price one could get three rows. V60 seems more size-efficient so for practical purposes it isn't terribly smaller than the V90, but is significantly more affordable. And its "competitor" the XC60 doesn't offer three rows. For me, the difference between the two (V60 vs, XC60) comes down to better driving dynamics and gas mileage vs. more open cabin and higher seating position, which is more of an equal contest.
 
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If they want to lose me as a customer, that is their choice.

I will never buy any SUV or crossover under any circumstance. No, not even a cross-country model.



I disagree that they are objectively better in all of those categories. Higher seating position? Sure, I'll give you that one.

I had an XC90 as a loaner from my dealership.

The trunk space was the same as in my old first gen V70 which is a mid-sized car by modern standards...

I even measured it.

I figured I'd take the opportunity when I had the loaner to bring my snow blower in for maintenance, and it didn't fit any better in the XC90 than it did in my little V70...

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As far as I am concerned SUV's and crossovers are the dumbest things to ever hit the road. Worse handling, worse fuel milage, lack the space advantage people think they have, and are both more dangerous to other drivers and pedestrians and less safe to occupants than cars are.

If I never see another SUV it will be too soon, but unfortunately I will have to put up with those monstrosities the next time I drive anywhere. I wish they were banned.

I don't want anything that even remotely reminds me of an SUV or a crossover. That new C40 concept? Would never buy it. Just like the Chevy Bolt it reminds me too much of some sort of efficiency mini SUV with a stupidly high seating position.

Do not want.

Why does the future always have to be so disappointing?
I'm 70. Wagons have ALWAYS been my choice of cars. I don't like tall cars. First Volvo was an 850 Wagon, currently have a 2007 XC70. These have been the perfect cars for me, and if Volvo quits wagons, they've lost me entirely.
And oh, by the way, Audi and Mercedes are not the only (ignoring the prices) station wagon alternatives. Anyone heard of Subaru? Their Outback wagon is a damned nice vehicle. My area has for many years been a mecca for Volvo fans, but Volvo's market share has taken a big hit from Subaru. Volvo has been less and less of a value in my eyes.
 

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Interesting. I haven't traveled as much as of late so I haven't rented as many cars lately, but when I did, car rentals were almost exclusively some boring generic GM or Ford vehicles.

I did get an NA 3.2 S80 as a rental once in like 2010, but that was some weird fluke. Other than that I've never seen a Volvo as a rental in the U.S.
My actual intro to actually driving a Volvo was pure chance in 2018 that National happened to have a V60CC sitting in the Executive lane and my company contract gave us access to Exec. I got to drive that around Orlando for a week which led to my even stronger desire for a V60 of my own. I know for sure that if I hadn't had that rental, I would not be a Volvo owner today.

For the past 5 years, I have been travelling roughly a week per month for work. I have had lots of crappy rentals, but lots of "decent" rentals. Lots of the more basic vehicles the Versa, Altima, Cruze, Malibu, Elantra, etc but also have had the V60CC, Mustang, F-150, Ranger, Armada, Jetta, Passat, Tahoe, and about anything in between. Even had a Ford Galaxy Diesel Van w/manual in the UK and then 2 days later a gasoline version in Germany.
 

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My wife had zero objection to my desire for a wagon. Her only rule is no mini-van....which I agree with.

I do hope wagons stick around. Although it will most likely be 7-10 years before I am in the market again.


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Why the mini-van hate? Just leased a Pacifica Hybrid for utilitarian purposes. V70r for fun (and the CO winter) and wifey's T6 xc90 R-Design for well, you know... No gas day to day and the limited is rather nice inside... With 3 kids, v70r was getting a bit tight for comfort though it sure does fine on the Sam's Club run. Changed in the van from one sport to the other too the other day, never been able to that easily before!
 

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You'll never see anyone on an internet forum state that they love mini-vans, it's just not cool, but they really are the best at what they do.
 

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The original AMC Eagle, 1995 Outback, Allroad, V70 Cross Country, XC... even the Tercel and Corolla had semi-SUV models. We are really only seeing a return full circle in auto trends. Some years ago I had an acquaintance who was resto-modding an old mid-40s model. The driver sat almost as high as an 80s 2wd truck. It also happened to have a wagonlike body. So really it was the first CUV.
On a parallel track, my mom was an early adopter of the truck lifestyle. Not for towing or hauling or living off an unimproved road but because she's 5'2" and liked finally being able to see over all the cars. I think we are seeing a moment in history where lifestyle-projection intersects with "commanding view", cheap fuel (gas for the moment) and cheap future fuel source (people may believe that electricity will remain less than $.15/kW, but when demand triples from BEV purchases, I am certain there will be an adjustment in the price of electricity). And add aging into the mix. With a large part of the population finding climbing up and out of a sedan harder than sliding right out of a CUV, and fewer minivans available, it makes sense for automakers to kill passenger cars.
A third point: I have the V70 T5M, a Ford Flex, which REALLY is just a tall station wagon with a 60's vibe and a Mazda6 wagon. My long-term mileage for the 3 cars is 21 avg for the V70 manual, 19.5 for the V6 Mazda which weighs about the same and a bit less power from the 3.0, and 18 avg for the Flex FWD which weighs enough that jacking it up with the same floor jack I use for my other cars feels like a workout. In reality, when you factor in the weight, larger dimensions in width, height and wheelbase, the Flex might be more efficient moving what it does than the Mazda, and perhaps even more than the V70 manual.
Even with the advances we are seeing in CUV technology and efficiencies, I still dislike knowing that the future - at least near future - will be all cars towering over me at well over 5'. I hold on to the hope that Gen Z will rebel against their stodgy progenitors and decide they want to drive themselves and that they want to do it in something that their dear old Dad can't get out of, so they'll have their low-riding cars all to themselves.
 
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If you use rental agencies like Sixt, Volvos (S60s included) are very common. But virtually all the rental agencies have a mid-sized premium sedan category, that they fill with the BMW 3-series, whatever Merc is in that class, the now discontinued entry level Jag, and the S60.
I've never even heard of Sixt. I haven't used anyone by the big names, Avis, Hertz, Enterprise and their subsidiaries. You know, the regular suspects at the airport rental desks.
 

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My actual intro to actually driving a Volvo was pure chance in 2018 that National happened to have a V60CC sitting in the Executive lane and my company contract gave us access to Exec. I got to drive that around Orlando for a week which led to my even stronger desire for a V60 of my own. I know for sure that if I hadn't had that rental, I would not be a Volvo owner today.

For the past 5 years, I have been travelling roughly a week per month for work. I have had lots of crappy rentals, but lots of "decent" rentals. Lots of the more basic vehicles the Versa, Altima, Cruze, Malibu, Elantra, etc but also have had the V60CC, Mustang, F-150, Ranger, Armada, Jetta, Passat, Tahoe, and about anything in between. Even had a Ford Galaxy Diesel Van w/manual in the UK and then 2 days later a gasoline version in Germany.
I guess things have changed in later years.

My recent couple of jobs haven't involved as much travel as I had in the past.

There was a period there where I got something like 8 Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevy Malibu's in a row.

I used to feed picking up my rental. Getting something like a V60 would have been so much nicer.
 

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Why the mini-van hate? Just leased a Pacifica Hybrid for utilitarian purposes. V70r for fun (and the CO winter) and wifey's T6 xc90 R-Design for well, you know... No gas day to day and the limited is rather nice inside... With 3 kids, v70r was getting a bit tight for comfort though it sure does fine on the Sam's Club run. Changed in the van from one sport to the other too the other day, never been able to that easily before!
I grew up with a 1986 Plymouth Voyager and even drove it for my first couple of years with my license. I personally love mini-vans for their usability and modern ones have plenty of power...but they are all still big fat pigs. :p
My wife is the absolute anti-van person. Why would I argue with her? If we had more than 2 kids, we most likely would have put more consideration towards a mini-van, but for now her and I both still get to drive vehicles we prefer vs what our kids need/want.
 

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I grew up with a 1986 Plymouth Voyager and even drove it for my first couple of years with my license. I personally love mini-vans for their usability and modern ones have plenty of power...but they are all still big fat pigs. :p
My wife is the absolute anti-van person. Why would I argue with her? If we had more than 2 kids, we most likely would have put more consideration towards a mini-van, but for now her and I both still get to drive vehicles we prefer vs what our kids need/want.
Honestly, I'd take any mini-van over any SUV or crossover.

There is just something honest and utilitarian about s minivan. It's not trying to save an image of offroading or performance driving. It's just the ultimate pragmatic expression of "I have 4 kids and I need to get **** done" and I have a great deal of respect for that.

That's what the Volvo brand used to be about. Pragmatism and utilitarianism above all else.

Former Volvo CEO Pehr G. Gyllenhammar used to swear that over his dead body would Volvo ever become a luxury brand. It was all about families, safety, utilitarianism and pragmatism. Now they are trying to be just another Mercedes/BMW/Audi, and it is a bit sad. The brand has lost its soul.

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In a way, although they never sold one, the minivan is the most Volvo thing ever. A vehicle that screams "I am no longer a man-child that craves such silly things as sporty handling, head turning looks or ridiculous luxury features. I am a family man. The only thing that matters is the safety of my family, and I am buying a vehicle dedicated to transporting them and getting the groceries, and I am damn proud of that!", just like Volvo used to.

Although it is tragically mostly dead, there is still a little Volvo left in the company. The integrated pop-up booster seats available in the back seats of some models is about as Volvo as it gets. An innovation that makes family life a little easier. Just like when they were the first company to equip their cars with fold down rear seats for transporting more crap in the trunk, back in the day.

Sadly that Volvo and its strong true no-no sense brand identity is going away, and it is being replaced with a bland Audi wannabe. This is what happens when you sell your soul to the devil.
 

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I've never even heard of Sixt. I haven't used anyone by the big names, Avis, Hertz, Enterprise and the offer and subsidiaries. You know, the regular suspects at the airport rental desks.
They're focused on major travel destinations like FL and CA - much smaller company than the ones you mentioned. I go to Orlando a couple of times a year and they have a large operation there.
 

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I guess things have changed in later years.

My recent couple of jobs haven't involved as much travel as I had in the past.

There was a period there where I got something like 8 Pontiac Grand Prix and Chevy Malibu's in a row.

I used to feed picking up my rental. Getting something like a V60 would have been so much nicer.
I love the rental car companies, I think Alamo does this, where you just pick out any car you want as you walk down the row of the class of vehicle that you paid for. I've rented a lot of different cars by doing this.
 

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I've never even heard of Sixt. I haven't used anyone by the big names, Avis, Hertz, Enterprise and the offer and subsidiaries. You know, the regular suspects at the airport rental desks.
Sixt is a major European rental agency, that over the past decade or so has expanded fairly rapidly in the US. From my own experience, they tend to have fleets of much nicer/cleaner cars than the other majors in the US. And, for what it's worth, their "counter experience" is A LOT nicer, modern, and more friendly than what you see and get at a Hertz, Enterprise, Alamo, etc.

There is just something honest and utilitarian about s minivan. It's not trying to save an image of offroading or performance driving. It's just the ultimate pragmatic expression of "I have 4 kids and I need to get **** done"
I'm not so sure about that. I mean, yes, there are some people that buy them with that mentality, just as there are some that buy actual SUVs (e.g.: 4Runner) and use them for some off-road adventures as well as hauling kids to soccer. But, in my experience, most minivan buyers are similar to most SUV buyers in that they've bought into an "idea" of what their lives will be like, rather than what it is or needs to be. Do they actually NEED a 3-row van? 9 times out of 10, no. But they think they'll need it for that one time, maybe, that they're carrying their kids and their kids' friends, AND need to stop at IKEA. And so they buy uninspired gray (most commonly purchased minivan color) boxes and proceed to live a driving life that could have been served by a smaller, frankly more stylish, vehicle.
 

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Honestly, I'd take any mini-van over any SUV or crossover.

There is just something honest and utilitarian about s minivan. It's not trying to save an image of offroading or performance driving. It's just the ultimate pragmatic expression of "I have 4 kids and I need to get **** done" and I have a great deal of respect for that.
We loved our minivans and we didn't just use it's capability once or twice a year - more like once or twice a week - Volvo did miss the boat on this but recovered with the XC90. Many of the three row SUVs the market clamors for are essentially jacked up minivans with less utility. We had an Odyssey and a Siena. The Ody had the superior running gear but the Siena was more luxurious.
 

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We loved our minivans and we didn't just use it's capability once or twice a year - more like once or twice a week - Volvo did miss the boat on this but recovered with the XC90. Many of the three row SUVs the market clamors for are essentially jacked up minivans with less utility. We had an Odyssey and a Siena. The Ody had the superior running gear but the Siena was more luxurious.
But were either/both of those some shade of gray? 😛

In all seriousness though, the very fact that you're here on a car forum, indicates you're already more than likely the 1 in 10 minivan buyer I referenced. Just as, within this Volvo microcosm, you'll probably see a disproportionate amount of Bursting Blue and Passion Red, but clearly that's not the choice of the average buyer. If you're on a car forum, you're almost by definition, not the average consumer.
 

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Sixt is a major European rental agency, that over the past decade or so has expanded fairly rapidly in the US. From my own experience, they tend to have fleets of much nicer/cleaner cars than the other majors in the US. And, for what it's worth, their "counter experience" is A LOT nicer, modern, and more friendly than what you see and get at a Hertz, Enterprise, Alamo, etc.
Interesting. they must be more recent. Either that or they weren't in Sweden when I lived there from ~1983 to 1999.

I will have to check them out.
 
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