Driving PHEV on an empty battery for extended periods

rico_fafs · Nov 2, 2023

Rather than revive a 2 year old thread, I am starting a new one that hasn't really addressed what I have found yet on Swedespeed.

I have a 2023 V60 Polestar, and after reviewing the owner manual found a section that says "Severe damage" to the hybrid battery can occur if you do not immediately recharge the battery after it is fully depleted.

I called Volvo to confirm as no one person could possibly follow this to a T (when traveling, for instance, or if you were to park on the street) and they confirmed that as soon as it drops below 10% that you should charge it (funny because the battery gas meter does not display in percentages, but in miles, 🙃). Another thing is I can't imagine from normal driving the battery "completely discharges" even when at zero, it must keep a small charge to protect itself?

Seems like a CYA move by Volvo or does anyone else have knowledge behind this? I have started parking in the street more often at my home to let me wife use our one car garage from time to time and so I tend to go a week or more without charging now.

vonogo · Nov 3, 2023

IMO, it's something to be aware of for long term storage. Like you said Volvo doesn't prescribe anything special for roadtrips nor does it give a timeline to recharge as long as the car doesn't sit for weeks/months. I've noticed that when the car says the battery is empty, the app says it's around 3% after parking. Additionally the car ensures there's always enough charge so AWD is available anytime. However if you park the car on 'empty' and let it sit without driving it for weeks the battery will more than likely drain to zero which can't be good. A strategy would be to drive it in Charge or Hold to keep the battery at 25% if you planned on something like parking it at airport for weeks/months in freezing or hot temps.

cmenscher · Nov 3, 2023

Interesting you say that. I recently let my battery go to 0 and drove a bit in Hybrid. I had it set to start in Pure by default. I parked in a garage to drop off my kid somewhere and when I returned the car was unmoveable with a "Propulsion System Error". It took a hard reset to bring it back to even let me drive with the ICE. I immediately put it into charge mode and sat with the engine idling for about 30 minutes. It still displayed the error, but when I got home I plugged it in and by the next day it was like it never happened.

thecanadaman · Nov 4, 2023

The best thing to do on a PHEV when you deplete the battery is to switch to B mode. When you do this it will do some regen braking for the system so the car will act like a normal hybrid when you do this and it doesn't harm anything. That said, I wouldn't keep it empty of charge, you paid way too much for it to not get the benefit of it.

vonogo · Nov 5, 2023

thecanadaman said:
The best thing to do on a PHEV when you deplete the battery is to switch to B mode. When you do this it will do some regen braking for the system so the car will act like a normal hybrid when you do this and it doesn't harm anything. That said, I wouldn't keep it empty of charge, you paid way too much for it to not get the benefit of it.

Unless Volvo reprogrammed the brakes between Sensus and AAOS models, the available regen deceleration/energy harvesting is the same whether in D or B. In Sensus, regen is indicated in the instrument cluster and in the Driver Performance app.

thecanadaman · Nov 6, 2023

The B will create more regen because the car doesn't coast in that mode. D will get you some regen, just B will get a little more.

DFrantz · Nov 6, 2023

vonogo said:
Unless Volvo reprogrammed the brakes between Sensus and AAOS models, the available regen deceleration/energy harvesting is the same whether in D or B. In Sensus, regen is indicated in the instrument cluster and in the Driver Performance app.

Yeah, they did exactly that. The AAOS cars have a completely reprogrammed system that you can effectively do one pedal drive on the PHEV cars now.

thecanadaman · Nov 6, 2023

DFrantz said:
Yeah, they did exactly that. The AAOS cars have a completely reprogrammed system that you can effectively do one pedal drive on the PHEV cars now.

And it's awesome!

vonogo · Nov 6, 2023

DFrantz said:
Yeah, they did exactly that. The AAOS cars have a completely reprogrammed system that you can effectively do one pedal drive on the PHEV cars now.

Isn't it just using the friction brakes to get you to a stop from the last 4mph? My guess is the meat and potatoes are the same. This review of the EX30 mentions even that thing uses friction brakes to come to a complete stop. In Sensus you can see the regen kicks off right at 4mph. I believe the AAOS change just lets the friction brakes take over automatically vs manually pressing the brake pedal.

thecanadaman · Nov 6, 2023

I guess we're only going to know for sure once we get a chance to test it out. With the present cars:

the PHEV in B mode will slow down to a stop unless you enable 'creep'
the BEV 40s have 3 modes for the one pedal drive - on, off, auto. It will take you right down to a stop in on and also auto in most cases. I find the auto mode on this to be brilliant

It will be interesting even for us at Volvo dealers to see what the take rate is on 30s vs 40s. Right now we can't judge because the deposit is refundable and we could end up seeing people cancel or switch models, especially at the beginning. This is what we experienced with the 40s, but now hardly anyone cancels.

DFrantz · Nov 6, 2023

vonogo said:
Isn't it just using the friction brakes to get you to a stop from the last 4mph? My guess is the meat and potatoes are the same. This review of the EX30 mentions even that thing uses friction brakes to come to a complete stop. In Sensus you can see the regen kicks off right at 4mph. I believe the AAOS change just lets the friction brakes take over automatically vs manually pressing the brake pedal.

I don't know the ratios or programming, but it's significantly different than the old cars. The extended range, the added power, the one pedal, I wouldn't even consider an older PHEV... though honestly, I wouldn't ever consider ANY PHEV... but I'm pretty bias towards the extended range ones when talking with customers about CPO options.

vonogo · Nov 6, 2023

DFrantz said:
I don't know the ratios or programming, but it's significantly different than the old cars. The extended range, the added power, the one pedal, I wouldn't even consider an older PHEV... though honestly, I wouldn't ever consider ANY PHEV... but I'm pretty bias towards the extended range ones when talking with customers about CPO options.

Our 2022.5 XC90 is an ER with Sensus

RechargeHard · Nov 6, 2023

What’s the deal with auto? I don’t see that in either of my 2023 cars

Ultrarunner511 · Nov 6, 2023

cmenscher said:
Interesting you say that. I recently let my battery go to 0 and drove a bit in Hybrid. I had it set to start in Pure by default. I parked in a garage to drop off my kid somewhere and when I returned the car was unmoveable with a "Propulsion System Error". It took a hard reset to bring it back to even let me drive with the ICE. I immediately put it into charge mode and sat with the engine idling for about 30 minutes. It still displayed the error, but when I got home I plugged it in and by the next day it was like it never happened.

30 minutes of idling. Great way to spice up that fuel/oil mixture while supporting Volvo’s “green” vision 🤡

thecanadaman · Nov 6, 2023

RechargeHard said:
What’s the deal with auto? I don’t see that in either of my 2023 cars

It wasn't in those. It's in the 2024 BEVs (not the PHEVs).

Driving PHEV on an empty battery for extended periods

rico_fafs

vonogo

cmenscher

thecanadaman

vonogo

thecanadaman

DFrantz

thecanadaman

vonogo

thecanadaman

DFrantz

vonogo

RechargeHard

Ultrarunner511

thecanadaman

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