SwedeSpeed - Volvo Performance Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

AvocadoFarm

· Registered
2022 XC60 Recharge T8 Inscription
Joined
·
431 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm wondering what others are experiencing regarding Volvo dealers pricing cars above MSRP. I spoke with the GM at my dealership yesterday. He said some Boston-area dealers are tacking on as much as $5000 "market adjustment" to the MSRP. His dealership is only adding a "premium protection package" for $995 that (in his words) "actually gives the buyer some value." It includes the usual Volvo stuff like floor and cargo mats but adds a ceramic paint protection product. When I bought my 2022 XC60 four months ago I got a small discount (3%) and zero pressure to buy dealer add-ons and felt lucky to get the car with no chip-related deletions. Even though his showroom and lot are almost empty, he said they're getting cars in regularly but they're pre-ordered, pre-sold, or sold very quickly once they arrive.

Is jacking up the price a regional thing or are others seeing it where they live? (A side note: I understand in Canada it's illegal to sell cars above MSRP. Is that true?)
 
Out of curiosity, are you trying to buy an SUV? Those move much faster than the sedans and wagons but still - I cannot help but believe if you looked at dealerships outside your immediate area, you'll find a dealer that won't do that. I look at AutoTrader with a 300 mile radius for a T8 every few days and honestly, the stock barely ever changes. I know I've seen several vehicles on dealer websites that offer a 1k loyalty discount as well as 1.25k credit towards certain models as well as a .5k discount for some other random reason. I called this dealer about a month ago for the same car I'm sending a screenshot for now but given that it's a T8 and the batteries are getting an overhaul, I'm holding off. The sales manager was super nice and I bet would happily take a call from you to inquire about one of their cars. It may save you some money to drive/fly to VA to buy your car....


Image
 
I think it's mostly a regional or even dealer by dealer thing, just depending on supply and demand. There was a person on one of the Volvo enthusiast fb pages asking if a $10k market adjustment was worth it for a T8. Of course the majority of the opinions were absolutely not but dealers in the US can ask whatever they want for a car - the "S" in MSRP means "Suggested".
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Out of curiosity, are you trying to buy an SUV? Those move much faster than the sedans and wagons but still - I cannot help but believe if you looked at dealerships outside your immediate area, you'll find a dealer that won't do that. I look at AutoTrader with a 300 mile radius for a T8 every few days and honestly, the stock barely ever changes. I know I've seen several vehicles on dealer websites that offer a 1k loyalty discount as well as 1.25k credit towards certain models as well as a .5k discount for some other random reason. I called this dealer about a month ago for the same car I'm sending a screenshot for now but given that it's a T8 and the batteries are getting an overhaul, I'm holding off. The sales manager was super nice and I bet would happily take a call from you to inquire about one of their cars. It may save you some money to drive/fly to VA to buy your car....


View attachment 140291
@mhyer thanks for all the info. I'm not in the market to buy yet but would like to be in the spring depending on availability and pricing conditions. When I am in the market I will definitely expand my search beyond the eastern Massachusetts region to find better pricing if necessary. We will be under no pressure to buy a new car in the spring, it's a "want" and not a "need". My dealer is known for fair pricing and no (or very little) sales BS and that's what I experienced when we got our T8. I'd like to get another if it can be ordered with all the chip-related functions included at a fair price (which I still feel should be below MSRP) and delivered in a reasonable amount of time. If not, we'll wait or look elsewhere.
 
I'm wondering what others are experiencing regarding Volvo dealers pricing cars above MSRP. I spoke with the GM at my dealership yesterday. He said some Boston-area dealers are tacking on as much as $5000 "market adjustment" to the MSRP. His dealership is only adding a "premium protection package" for $995 that (in his words) "actually gives the buyer some value." It includes the usual Volvo stuff like floor and cargo mats but adds a ceramic paint protection product. When I bought my 2022 XC60 four months ago I got a small discount (3%) and zero pressure to buy dealer add-ons and felt lucky to get the car with no chip-related deletions. Even though his showroom and lot are almost empty, he said they're getting cars in regularly but they're pre-ordered, pre-sold, or sold very quickly once they arrive.

Is jacking up the price a regional thing or are others seeing it where they live? (A side note: I understand in Canada it's illegal to sell cars above MSRP. Is that true?)
In Canada it is illegal to advertise a car at MSRP and then charge more. But you can advertise at whatever price you want. Just no bait and switch.
 
This is not new, this is industry standard now. The next year all vehicle pricing will be insanely inflated. Honda, Toyota, GM, etc all do it. It's at the dealers discretion but they will HAVE to up charge due to the shortage.
 
My observation/anecdotal opinion is that pretty much all cars are 10-20% inflated currently. So a Tacoma that normally sells for sticker price is now a full 10-20% over sticker, and cars like Volvos that used to sell for 5-10% below sticker are now going for at or just above sticker. Dealers claim the shortage is going to last another 1-2 years, which makes me think it will actually be 6-12 months maybe. They'll milk it as long as possible, but as soon as inventory piles up they'll be forced back to "normal" pricing pretty quickly I suspect. But when that actually will happen... who knows. The only people who can actually say for sure are extremely biased...
 
Fuel and real estate prices are both certainly valid issues, but extremely complicated issues that are not necessarily related other than being in the same group of "stuff that's got more expensive lately". I do definitely agree, though, that many dealers/manufacturers will have some interesting data to chew on regarding lower volume/higher margin operations and they will definitely be doing the math to see if it makes more sense to pump volume back up when they can or keep it controlled. Very curious to see what 2022 and beyond has in store for the car market.

And we should all just count ourselves lucky to be worrying about $5k markups on our luxury vehicles, I'd say that's a pretty good sign that life is going just fine :)
 
My observation/anecdotal opinion is that pretty much all cars are 10-20% inflated currently. So a Tacoma that normally sells for sticker price is now a full 10-20% over sticker, and cars like Volvos that used to sell for 5-10% below sticker are now going for at or just above sticker. Dealers claim the shortage is going to last another 1-2 years, which makes me think it will actually be 6-12 months maybe. They'll milk it as long as possible, but as soon as inventory piles up they'll be forced back to "normal" pricing pretty quickly I suspect. But when that actually will happen... who knows. The only people who can actually say for sure are extremely biased...
Dealers are milking this huh? Can you please explain to me how selling 5 cars at MSRP earns the dealer more profit than 50 at invoice? Because that’s what is happening to new car sales. And let’s not forget about all the lost slaws to other brands because of no inventory.

Dealers would do ANYTHING to go back to the way it was. No one is milking this, it’s kind of insulting to suggest that. And the people that are most informed on how long this will last are “biased”!?! Are you kidding? They are the least biased and probably error on being overly optimistic. Your opinion is in the extreme minority I assure you.
 
I mean opinions are opinions, so that's cool. But you can't possibly argue that the people controlling the information about inventory levels are biased. Your entire reply is pretty solid evidence of how severely bias can skew an opinion.

And the issue is dealers in my area are NOT selling 5 cars at MSRP, dealers in my area with that kind of inventory trouble are charging $15-20k market adjustments. They have an issue of inventory shortage and instead of them taking the hit they are passing the cost to consumers to keep their margins. It's their right to do so, but it's also my right to object to it. Any dealer who is selling their 5 cars/month at MSRP this year is a saint in my book and I applaud their fairness, they are not milking anything.

My stated opinion was that car prices are currently 10-20% inflated and I really doubt that is an "extreme minority".
 
I mean opinions are opinions, so that's cool. But you can't possibly argue that the people controlling the information about inventory levels are biased. Your entire reply is pretty solid evidence of how severely bias can skew an opinion.

And the issue is dealers in my area are NOT selling 5 cars at MSRP, dealers in my area with that kind of inventory trouble are charging $15-20k market adjustments. They have an issue of inventory shortage and instead of them taking the hit they are passing the cost to consumers to keep their margins. It's their right to do so, but it's also my right to object to it. Any dealer who is selling their 5 cars/month at MSRP this year is a saint in my book and I applaud their fairness, they are not milking anything.

My stated opinion was that car prices are currently 10-20% inflated and I really doubt that is an "extreme minority".
Well you should understand there are MANY dealerships that never sell cars above MSRP. You should also understand there are MANY dealerships that do not have 5 new models in stock, and yet they take care of their customers.

Exactly who do you think controls inventory levels, and how are they biased? Again, what benefit do you see pretending this shortage is going to last longer that it is and telling dealers that? All that does is hurt everyone. So far Volvo's inventory predictions have be extremely accurate, and dealers would be infuriated if they were told "made up" forecasts. How is this helpful? If anything they are being conservative to not over promise and under deliver. In my mind you as the consumer are the one that is biased, trying to assume everyone is out to screw the customer. All anyone wants is an ample supply of cars immediately. No one is "milking" anything, they are all bleeding cash. The dealers charging all these market adjustment prices are the only ones that could be considered taking advantage of the situation, but their future with these customers will come back to haunt them. It always works that way. I think it's crazy to see people pay when literally they could fly to another dealer and buy at MSRP all day long.
 
I suspect that inventory levels will not return to prepandemic levels. Loading dealers with several hundred cars and having to provide huge cu and dealer incentives to sell cars was not smart business. Having smaller inventories means cars can be sold for higher prices.

Back 20 - 25 years ago, we thought that a good deal was invoice minus any customer incentives. Pre pandemic, it was thousands of dollars in dealer discounts plus customer incentives from the factory. While dealers could make money under this model, the OEMs burned unnecessary cash. Simply put, Having a huge supply of unsold cars is not a good business model.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I suspect that inventory levels will not return to prepandemic levels. Loading dealers with several hundred cars and having to provide huge cu and dealer incentives to sell cars was not smart business. Having smaller inventories means cars can be sold for higher prices.

Back 20 - 25 years ago, we thought that a good deal was invoice minus any customer incentives. Pre pandemic, it was thousands of dollars in dealer discounts plus customer incentives from the factory. While dealers could make money under this model, the OEMs burned unnecessary cash. Simply put, Having a huge supply of unsold cars is not a good business model.
I agree. Clearly manufacturers want to move toward an online model, perhaps like Tesla, retaining some showrooms and service sites but moving the sales mostly online. The Amazon model may be the ultimate goal. Instead of maintaining excess inventories at each of thousands of stores, manufacturers could "warehouse" large, comprehensive inventories remotely so ordered cars can be delivered in days instead of months. This eliminates dealers competing on price for the same car and increases profit for the manufacturer. It may even result in somewhat lower prices to us due to brand competition, but that would assume a supply of cars adequate to meet the demand.
 
I agree. Clearly manufacturers want to move toward an online model, perhaps like Tesla, retaining some showrooms and service sites but moving the sales mostly online. The Amazon model may be the ultimate goal. Instead of maintaining excess inventories at each of thousands of stores, manufacturers could "warehouse" large, comprehensive inventories remotely so ordered cars can be delivered in days instead of months. This eliminates dealers competing on price for the same car and increases profit for the manufacturer. It may even result in somewhat lower prices to us due to brand competition, but that would assume a supply of cars adequate to meet the demand.
While manufacturers may want that, I do not think it will happen any time soon due to state laws and the dealer lobbies. It was hard enough for Chrysler and GM to jettison chunks of their dealer networks in the 2009 time frame, and that was successful mainly because of the bankruptcy process that let them terminate contracts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FDL5231 and aptosca
These are the industry posts I do enjoy the most. I just find it interesting.

First, my bias: We are selling cars at MSRP and then taking the rebates off, if there are any. Since the early shutdowns ended, I never sold less than 10 cars a month until September. 10 cars is when I get my bonus kick in. Discounts had been going down over the months, so profit per car was higher on new cars... but on used cars we're paying more for them as well, so they are more or less the same. The exception is, I no longer have cars that have been on the lot for 9 months with heavy discounts that sometimes are a loss to the dealer. We have one old (new) 2020 S90 and everything else is pretty fresh on the used side. In the first 11 months I sold 124 cars but the last few months I haven't hit my bonus, so that was a pretty front loaded figure.

I've seen both big and small dealers go over MSRP. If that's where the market is that's simply where it is. Across the street at the Ford store I used to work at they've been over MSRP for months on trucks and some SUVS, and there are five other Ford stores within about 20 minutes... so it's not lack of competition. Some of the big city dealers that normally advertised under invoice are now over MSRP, but of course have not reduced their hidden fees and packages. Used cars are the really crazy thing, for some models often selling for more than MSRP as well.

Volvo has a mega crush on Tesla. I think there is a massive failure on Volvos part to recognize much of Tesla's success was simply due to a lack of competition. While some folks do like the online model, I think many do not. Personally I would be fine with it as a customer. I think we in the industry would need to see a merger of sales person and service advisor. Generally I find most service advisors deflect any how to tech questions up to the sales department and we often look silly when we determine it's a fault and send it back down to service. But if sales shifted towards customer experience, that could easily transition into service, especially with electrification. The technical understanding needs of both sales and service has gone up over the years, and there is far more overlap. Yes, Volvo wants an online method and believes in holding gross via single regional pricing. I'm okay with that too. Not because it means selling the cars for more money, but it means less hidden surprise costs that artificially lower the advertised price. It would make whatever sales is, be focused on value of the product, not the deal. As a more customer service oriented sales person that is appealing to me. I don't car how much we make on a car so long as I make a good living, which obviously has to come from profits. For every deal hunter lost to another brand, I think the non nonsense "yes that's a fair value for what I'm getting" rational person we pick up that hates to haggle, I'd be pleased. So few people complain about the thousands of dollars of sales taxes are added, and it's not because everyone thinks government is a great value for the money and they feel lucky to contribute so much, but because everyone is taxed the same amount with sales tax. Not a single customer has ever shown me how they value a car other than to compare it to what they see online that others paid or what it is compared to another brand.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts