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People don't use Pilot Assist because they don't know how to drive.

Knowing how to drive a car includes knowing it's features, including convenience features like Pilot Assist. It's the responsibility of the driver to know and understand when to use it, how to easily override it, or when NOT to use it.
Eg: Complaining that something doesn't work on certain roads (or countries) just means that YOU shouldn't switch it on. Totally your choice and responsibility as a driver. No different than adjusting how you drive depending upon road/weather conditions.

That's a key part of being "able to drive". It's not rocket science - it's not even drag racing, for that matter.

Again for me - big thumbs up for Pilot Assist.
Huh? I didn’t get that…
 
Thumbs up from the UK. For me, I don't experience any erratic steering on curves. But I guess it relates to the quality of the road markings?
I've never had it dive for an exit ramp but maybe the US ramps don't have a 'lane marker' to cross? In the UK the major road has a continuous 'lane marker' and you have to cross it to get onto the exit ramp.
The only time I've 'disagreed' with Pilot Assist was an occasion when the car in front was leaving on an exit ramp but the system decided it was not exiting quickly enough. The system decided to apply some forceful braking to match the other car. In real world driving if the other car had lingered too long I would have moved into the other empty lane but I guess the system didn't have all the available information.
 
You mean….as everyone should be able to ”drive” their car as well……
No, not exactly. What I meant was a sarcastic comment about you throwing Park Assist in the discussion while clearly the context was Pilot Assist. The eternal September is still here, unfortunately.

Pilot Assist does not drive the car. It assist the driver in driving the car. It works just like the user manual says it does. Sometimes it makes wrong decisions. Still, the driver drives the car. It works nicely on normal roads here in Europe.
 
No, not exactly. What I meant was a sarcastic comment about you throwing Park Assist in the discussion while clearly the context was Pilot Assist. The eternal September is still here, unfortunately.

Pilot Assist does not drive the car. It assist the driver in driving the car. It works just like the user manual says it does. Sometimes it makes wrong decisions. Still, the driver drives the car. It works nicely on normal roads here in Europe.
“Works nicely” is a subjective term. It still ping pongs back and forth quite a bit negotiating even the simplest of curves…to the extent that it disturbs other passengers. My subjective opinion is that it’s half-baked in that regard.


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“Works nicely” is a subjective term. It still ping pongs back and forth quite a bit negotiating even the simplest of curves…to the extent that it disturbs other passengers. My subjective opinion is that it’s half-baked in that regard.


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For curves, the latest cars in Europe got curve speed adaptation, not sure why can't bring to US.

The PA system is basically from MobilEye and is 5 years old. Volvo can do nothing if MobilEye doesn't offer improvement. In theory it can be done better, as OpenPilot comma.ai (also camera based) seems doing well on curves.
 
“Works nicely” is a subjective term. It still ping pongs back and forth quite a bit negotiating even the simplest of curves…to the extent that it disturbs other passengers. My subjective opinion is that it’s half-baked in that regard.


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My car did this when I was first experimenting with Pilot Assist. I disabled Lane Keep Assist (from the Sensus settings) and the problem went away. Might be worth a try. I don’t use the Lane keep so it stays disabled.


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My car did this when I was first experimenting with Pilot Assist. I disabled Lane Keep Assist (from the Sensus settings) and the problem went away. Might be worth a try. I don’t use the Lane keep so it stays disabled.


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Yeah, this is an interesting take…I saw someone else suggest that. Seems odd that the systems would compete, but I’ll give it a shot!


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No, not exactly. What I meant was a sarcastic comment about you throwing Park Assist in the discussion while clearly the context was Pilot Assist. The eternal September is still here, unfortunately.

Pilot Assist does not drive the car. It assist the driver in driving the car. It works just like the user manual says it does. Sometimes it makes wrong decisions. Still, the driver drives the car. It works nicely on normal roads here in Europe.
Kinda like my left and right foot, hands, brain and numerous senses allow, me and brazillians of others to drive, as they have since the dawn of the automobile…?
You need to tell the one ghost in the machine to stop competing with the other ghost.;)
its like a haunted house….
 
“Works nicely” is a subjective term. It still ping pongs back and forth quite a bit negotiating even the simplest of curves…to the extent that it disturbs other passengers. My subjective opinion is that it’s half-baked in that regard.


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I think you should ride is some other owner’s cars snd see how yours is not properly calibrated. My car has NEVER ping pinged between lines, and it executes curves without issue and better than any Tesla I have been in. It’s pretty disingenuous to harp in a system when your car malfunctions but others works fine. That’s a problem with your car, not the system. Endless people here have posted they have never experienced the “issue” you list. Kinda means your car is broke. Maybe you should go have it fixed instead of complain.
 
I would agree that while I love the idea of it, it is a bit half-baked. Holding the wheel and trying to "share" the steering duties with pilot assist is just awkward, yet it's obviously not quite good enough to fully trust it hands-free (thus the built-in limitations). I personally think on the right roads/conditions it would work great completely hands free so I wish we could have that option to let it run hands free and monitor ourselves, but I don't blame volvo for not wanting to take that liability risk.

I still give a thumbs up for being a solid step toward automated driving, despite being years old now few companies have bested it. To my knowledge Tesla is really the only one better as of now excluding the GM/Ford styles that utilize GPS data (which in my opinion will not be the long-term solution).
 
I think you should ride is some other owner’s cars snd see how yours is not properly calibrated. My car has NEVER ping pinged between lines, and it executes curves without issue and better than any Tesla I have been in. It’s pretty disingenuous to harp in a system when your car malfunctions but others works fine. That’s a problem with your car, not the system. Endless people here have posted they have never experienced the “issue” you list. Kinda means your car is broke. Maybe you should go have it fixed instead of complain.
I’ve owned two S90s. Both did/do the exact same thing. There’s nothing disingenuous about my post, nor is there anything wrong with my cars…just the technology.


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I’ve owned two S90s. Both did/do the exact same thing. There’s nothing disingenuous about my post, nor is there anything wrong with my cars…just the technology.


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As written above, I see no real benefit for PA apart from novelty because for me it doesn't really reduce any fatigue (because I feel I don't really get that fatigued after driving for hours on end), but it's always taken curves very smoothly, without pinging between the lines -- this is both on the rental '18 Momentum V90 T4 I had on my road trip from Amsterdam to Stockholm and back in 2019, and on my current '19 V90CC T6.
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They've both executed thousands of miles (and hours) of continuous freeway driving on PA, perfectly smoothly.

How can you be so confident it's not your cars? Lol. It's like buying two faulty USB 3.1 drives and saying "look at the transfer speeds! they're so much lower than advertised! USB 3.1 sucks!" Instead of seeing that something's wrong based on most others' experiences.
 
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As written above, I see no real benefit for PA apart from novelty because for me it doesn't really reduce any fatigue (because I feel I don't really get that fatigued after driving for hours on end), but it's always taken curves very smoothly, without pinging between the lines -- this is both on the rental '18 Momentum V90 T4 I had on my road trip from Amsterdam to Stockholm and back in 2019, and on my current '19 V90CC T6.
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View attachment 140414

They've both executed thousands of miles (and hours) of continuous freeway driving on PA, perfectly smoothly.

How can you be so confident it's not your cars? Lol. It's like buying two faulty USB 3.1 drives and saying "look at the transfer speeds! they're so much lower than advertised! USB 3.1 sucks!" Instead of seeing that something's wrong based on most others' experiences.
I reveal that I’ve owned two S90s (2018 and 2020) - along with all the experiences with loaners during that time that exhibited the same behavior - and you’re going to double-down that there must be something wrong with my “cars” (plural)? I’ll let you think about the statistical absurdity of that postulation.

There are one of two explanations: either there’s something different in hardware/software between European and NA market cars, or your threshold of “perfectly smooth” operation is pretty low.

That being said, if I discover some issue that is causing the problem, I’ll be the first to come back here and admit/share it! [emoji41]

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It seems to me that some people compare the PA performance to the competition of semi-autonomous cars currently available whereas some folks compare it to a human driver. Which I think would explain the discrepancy in satisfaction. I think we can all admit it's not as good as an alert human driver, but in my experience/opinion it is a solid 2nd best to Tesla.
 
Kinda like my left and right foot, hands, brain and numerous senses allow, me and brazillians of others to drive, as they have since the dawn of the automobile…?
Exactly. The manual does not say Pilot Assist drives the car. It assists the driver so that she/he can momentarily focus on something else.
 
I reveal that I’ve owned two S90s (2018 and 2020) - along with all the experiences with loaners during that time that exhibited the same behavior - and you’re going to double-down that there must be something wrong with my “cars” (plural)? I’ll let you think about the statistical absurdity of that postulation.

There are one of two explanations: either there’s something different in hardware/software between European and NA market cars, or your threshold of “perfectly smooth” operation is pretty low.

That being said, if I discover some issue that is causing the problem, I’ll be the first to come back here and admit/share it!

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Well, yes, car*s*, because you have owned two, which is more than one, necessitating the use of the plural case.

The T4 was obviously a European-spec car, but the V90 is NA spec (Canada).
Your argument outlining a near-statistical impossibility applies inversely in my case.
The european V90 that I drove for over 2500 miles, my current V90, and the several loaners I’ve had (mostly long-term test drives) have never bounced around in a lane, apart from one which the dealer told me was having problems due to an incorrect calibration.
Are you saying that all these cars, having met design criteria, apart from that one with the stated problem, are unique?
And also that the several cars you’ve driven have (regrettably) had the same problem is statistically impossible, and instead is a design limitation? Really?
If it’s a design limitation from the start, everyone would be having those symptoms while operating it, on all curves. They don’t.
I’m not saying it’s as smooth as a human driver overall — I’m saying it doesn’t bounce around in the lane.

I think that the two possibilities you’ve outlined form a false dichotomy, and there are actually many more possible explanations to the issues with PA that you have unfortunately had.
Perhaps both of us have gotten lucky and unlucky, respectively, with the cars we’ve driven. Or the roads in our respective areas are different (shocker) which can either hinder or lend itself to the system being able to complete its task as designed (personally, I think this is very probable). Or, we are misunderstanding each others’ points. Or, like other people have said, maybe lane keep sometimes interferes with PA. Etc.

I don’t think my criteria of smooth driving is lacking, and neither have any of my passengers, one of which has been a nonegenarian uncomfortable with being in cars at all and is nervous during lane changes and faster turns, along with several others that have severe car sickness during spirited driving— not triggered, ever, when using PA. I think that’s more of an ad-hominem than anything else.

Per my (and others’) experience, it is possible for Pilot Assist to keep the car perfectly centered and take curves smoothly. Thus, the design can achieve it, striking down the statement that the design itself is incapable of doing so at all.
The cars you’ve experienced haven’t worked, thus the whole thing is flawed? Generalization.

The worst thing I’ve seen has been the system letting the car get too close to one side of the lane during a sharper curve, gradually correcting itself back to the middle, and once reaching the middle, staying there. This was during heavy rain.
 
Well, yes, car*s*, because you have owned two, which is more than one, necessitating the use of the plural case.

The T4 was obviously a European-spec car, but the V90 is NA spec (Canada).
Your argument outlining a near-statistical impossibility applies inversely in my case.
The european V90 that I drove for over 2500 miles, my current V90, and the several loaners I’ve had (mostly long-term test drives) have never bounced around in a lane, apart from one which the dealer told me was having problems due to an incorrect calibration.
Are you saying that all these cars, having met design criteria, apart from that one with the stated problem, are unique?
And also that the several cars you’ve driven have (regrettably) had the same problem is statistically impossible, and instead is a design limitation? Really?
If it’s a design limitation from the start, everyone would be having those symptoms while operating it, on all curves. They don’t.
I’m not saying it’s as smooth as a human driver overall — I’m saying it doesn’t bounce around in the lane.

I think that the two possibilities you’ve outlined form a false dichotomy, and there are actually many more possible explanations to the issues with PA that you have unfortunately had.
Perhaps both of us have gotten lucky and unlucky, respectively, with the cars we’ve driven. Or the roads in our respective areas are different (shocker) which can either hinder or lend itself to the system being able to complete its task as designed (personally, I think this is very probable). Or, we are misunderstanding each others’ points. Or, like other people have said, maybe lane keep sometimes interferes with PA. Etc.

I don’t think my criteria of smooth driving is lacking, and neither have any of my passengers, one of which has been a nonegenarian uncomfortable with being in cars at all and is nervous during lane changes and faster turns, along with several others that have severe car sickness during spirited driving— not triggered, ever, when using PA. I think that’s more of an ad-hominem than anything else.

Per my (and others’) experience, it is possible for Pilot Assist to keep the car perfectly centered and take curves smoothly. Thus, the design can achieve it, striking down the statement that the design itself is incapable of doing so at all.
The cars you’ve experienced haven’t worked, thus the whole thing is flawed? Generalization.

The worst thing I’ve seen has been the system letting the car get too close to one side of the lane during a sharper curve, gradually correcting itself back to the middle, and once reaching the middle, staying there. This was during heavy rain.
I stand by my assessment, empirically and statistically (and as evidenced by others on this board, I’m not the only one). If your experience with PA performance is acceptable to you, then by all means, that’s great. But for your own sake, please quit trying to make the ridiculous case that there must be something wrong with both cars I’ve owned over a five-year period. I have a lot of experience with the system across multiple vehicles. The statistically probable scenario/explanation is that the system has performed the same for both of us, wherein you find it acceptable, and I do not.


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I stand by my assessment, empirically and statistically (and as evidenced by others on this board, I’m not the only one). If your experience with PA performance is acceptable to you, then by all means, that’s great. But for your own sake, please quit trying to make the ridiculous case that there must be something wrong with both cars I’ve owned over a five-year period. I have a lot of experience with the system across multiple vehicles. The statistically probable scenario/explanation is that the system has performed the same for both of us, wherein you find it acceptable, and I do not.
What I don't understand is why you keep trying to paint the picture that because you have had problems, that's how it must be, and the system must act the same way for everyone.
It is entirely possible you had two cars whose systems didn't work properly. Just because maybe you think it shouldn't have happened to you, or can't have, doesn't mean it hasn't or should be impossible.

Some people have had two XC90s lemon-lawed one after the other for the exact same issue presenting itself over a long period of time. Shouldn't that also be practically impossible? What you're saying is a lazy generalization: "mine doesn't meet my expectations, so all of them must not meet my expectations."

Saying that "we have different expectations" is also bullsh!t, as you're stating the car bounces back and forth within a lane. For me, that simply has not happened. This is not on a variable scale. The car either stays centered or it does not. There are no differing expectations to be had with this specific issue.
I'm sure everyone who says the system works for them knows what it means to bounce in a lane.
It's like saying you can't tell the difference between driving on fresh asphalt versus a rutted dirt road, or that one would find them equally bumpy because of differing "expectations".
I'm not saying PA is great -- it's pretty rudimentary -- but it mostly accomplishes what it was designed to do.

In a crude nutshell, what you're meaning to say is that you have a more refined expectation of what a semi-autonomous system should be, whereas I'm happy with something that's crap.
Basically like making a comparison between someone who sends food back after finding a hair in it because of obviously unsanitary conditions preparing it, versus someone who doesn't care about the hair or whatever crap is in the food and eats it anyways. Right? lol.
 
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I should note that the lemon law example is not referring to the "exact same issue" meaning Pilot Assist not working -- it just means that the issue that happened the first time (whatever it was, not PA) happened again in the second one, both of which were lemon-lawed.
 
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