Dealer service vs. do it yourself? Need help on boost and vibrations

dhS60t · Jun 30, 2010

Hi all, I've always had my 2002 S60 2.4T auto dealer serviced. With 115K on the odo now I'm spending far more than I want to and justify keeping the car. With that said I still love it need some advice and technical support! I am a little mechanically inclined and used to work on my A1 and A2 VW Gti's (including engine/trans swaps) back in the day. They were much simpler than wht I see under the hood of this one.

So my issues are as follows:

1) at 60 MPH with a light throttle the car seems to vibrate pretty significantly. Like the wheel the wheels were massively out of balance. Under hard throttle from the same speed it still exists but is much less. If I coast (get off the gas) there is no vibration. I had the tires rebalance and the issue still exists. Suggestions? Motor mounts? Dirty MAF or throttle body? PCV? In the back of my head I am thinking trans converter but who knows if this car even has one.

2) this may be related,- at around 35 MPH cruizing through town between 1,500 and 1,800 RPMs the car feels like it is hunting between the current and gear below it. Otherwise it shifts and drives normally aside from the awfl clicking sounds that have always been there when starting off or backing up. Maybe this is somehow related to #1 above>?
I took it to the dealer and they checked out the transmission and fluid levels and said it is acting normally and no trouble codes. Funny thing is it did not do this before. I am about 60k mi. on a factory reman trans.

3) I purchased new spark plugs and attempted to replace them. I believe mine are original to the car despite full dealer servicing and recent big service with timing belt. I waited til the next morning when the car was cold after finally getting to them they were so tight I stopped attempting to take them out for fear of snapping them off in the head. Any tricks I should know about before lowering my head and taking it back to he dealer?

4) yesterday while sitting in traffic I look in my door rearview mirror and see a little bit of light blue/white smoke. It happened a couple times but I can't seem to reproduce it. It just passed smog with flying colors and
produced way below average particulates. After searching the forums I am beginning to suspect my PCV as a easy first fix. Now where the heck is the PCV on these cars? Is it the white dealio just by the head and above the transmission top?

5) Ball Joints- my dealer said my ball joints were bad and needed replacing $750 of course. Is this a realistic price? Seems a little high to me and inspection by my tire shop says they are just fine. Related to #1 above?

Thank you all for any feedback or advice you can give me.
DH

MYS6T · Jun 30, 2010

Have you done a FULL trany flush?If not do it its very easy with the Simple IPD kit and made a big difference in my 03 S60 AWD also clean your MAF.and 3rd take a look at engine and trany mounts.I have a friend that works on Volvo and BMW for the most part and he drove my car when i was having a similar issue to your #1 and he check my mounts and most if not all were either cracked/split or in the case of my lower trany no rubber at all left.This was causing the engine and trany not to line up correctly when i was driving and once i gave it gas it felt something like you describe.Try these all are very easy to do and it wont cost you a bunch of $$ if its something bigger.Changing my Boost tubing Couplers(rear was ripped and both had small amount of oil in them) and turbo vac lines also helped .Allare pretty simple things to do yourself.Also if you don't have one put in a boost gauge its a must when trying to trouble shot things like this .The # you get will give you some great clues on when and if anythings in going on with the turbo.

dhS60t · Jun 30, 2010

Thanks MY, I have gone through a few motor mounts on this car over it's life all under the 100K warranty. I had them check this a while back along with the tranny concern but they said all was fine. Since they want every one of my pennies I assume they are correct but will double-check. The fact that it goes away when not under any load made me initailly think of the mounts and seems to make a lot more sense than converter. I'll check the MAF and turbo vac lines if I can find them!

MYS6T · Jul 1, 2010

The Vac lines are easy they come off the TCV witch is connected to the Air box 3 rubber vac lines and the MAF is the plastic piece that is also at the intake of the air box Looks like this http://www.ipdusa.com/Volvo-S60/Engine-Management/Air-Mass-Sensor-AMSMAF/p-74-395-5352/ .IPD or most auto shops sell the cleaner just make sure u use the right one .IPD sells CRC Air Mass Meter (MAF) Cleaner. Thats what i used .The boost gauge is very easy to install IPD also has a video on how to do it and this will help with boost flux if any and gives a better idea on where to look for problem.

crazynorweegian · Jul 2, 2010

I would go with normal inspection and repair before going crazy with gauge installs or big ticket items. Firstly to your engine problems. At 130k you will have some intermittent issues with a little (I stress LITTLE bit of condensation or slow oil leak which could cause that smoke. Don't worry too much about it unless you see it after you have run the car uphill and been driving it (warm) for a while. Almost everyone has some water buildup in the exhaust depending on where they are, the particular car, the weather conditions, and the position that the car was parked. If it were all oil it would have been very blue, if it still looked white, it was probably just water. HOWEVER, if you get this problem more frequently and for longer intervals, smell the exhaust (not always very accurate, but worth a try) and check your coolant levels, you could have a gasket leak.

The performance/ hunting/ vibration issues: I would inspect your bushings and mounts YOURSELF. I went through this same crap for 6 months. At the time, I had NO experience with cars, but based on online write-ups, I was almost positive that it was the motor mounts and lower transmission mounts. Asked the mechanic to look at it, "all is fine." He informed me that my new radiator that he had installed 2K and 13 months ago was bad and that it needed to be replaced again. Of course, the radiator that has no problem when I brought it in was suddenly gushing coolant. I decided it was time for me to learn to fix stuff myself. I know that was a rambling sentence, but my point is to check it out yourself, because I checked out my mounts that were only about 15K old and they were almost nonexistent. I replaced with IPD poly mounts and driving and hesitation issues were gone.

You were on the right track with the spark plugs too. I would certainly give them a look, and if you did your timing belt/ water pump, the plugs should have been done at the same time or before. IPD has OEM ones for like $50 right now, I am going to do mine (101K) next week.

Also check out your suspension. If you have not replaced the entire thing or at least major parts of it, it may be time for that. Your suspension could also easily cause those problems on the highway. Go to a different shop (probably a good tire shop or alignment shop) and have them check your alignment. While they do that, they will usually check out your suspension and those ball joints too. I would not lead them in that direction though, because they might just confirm the diagnosis so you can give them $750 (can you tell that I have been lead-on by mechanics a few times?).

Either way, at 130K, you are either going to have to get this car working at a satisfactory level (at least temporarily) and sell it, or get into it for the long haul and prepare for $$$ (but most likely $$$$). I am facing the same dilemma with my timing belt and struts due (about $2000 if the shop does it).

Good luck!

dhS60t · Feb 17, 2011

So the vibration is really bad now. I brought it back to the dealer and said tell me what is wrong. Their call back said that my control arm bushings are torn and my "u-joint" on my right side has some play. No codes on the tranny and again the motor mounts and tranny fluid look great. The mechanic is not available to discuss with me and the service writer suggests that this is quite common and the torque is likely causing the vibration under load rather than coasting. Seems to make sense and I know I am at the end of the service life for these parts. Recommendations: $800 of new bushings, $1,700 worth of driveshafts, $150 alignment, $495 in brake pads and rotors; to start. So I said thank you and left! I purchased $375 total (incl shipping!) worth of 2 driveshafts, pads, new control arms with bushings and ball joints from FCP groton a sponsor on this site. I am estimating $5-600 for the install of this from a local mechanic but I am unsure of what the real "book" time is to install all of this. While I understand I am taking some risks here with the aftermarket parts, it seems worth a try as an alternative to the dealership and the silly prices of parts/labor they are quoting. To be honest this is a last stand for me and this car. I love it but the costs to repair are exceeding the value and adding a big headache in time and energy. Are there other recommendations for parts to install at the same time to maximize the labor going in?! Thank you for the support and suggestions.

NJGreenBudd · Feb 17, 2011

Your making more sense now, way to take control and get things sorted. You're going to be so much happier when it's all back together and running smoothly. 115,000 is just broken in and despite some worn bushings your car is probably in rather fine shape.

I don't know when your suspsenison was last serviced but it never hurts to look at shock mounts, spring seats, sway bar endlinks while your in there.

PCV is located under the intake manifold and consists of some rubber hoses and a oil trap, you can most likely clean the trap and the lines and be good to go, that is unless the oil changes were overdue and it's filled with sludge.

Your going to save boatloads by doing this yourself or even with a qualified indy shop, just make sure they know what they are doing.

Let us know if you need diagrams or part #'s as many of us have Vadis and willing to help in any way we can.

Hope this helps,
NJGB

dhS60t · Feb 18, 2011

vibrations

Thanks for the additional recommendations NJGB. I will post follow up on this to share the fix assuming this does it. If it does, I will have saved a ton of money and not be heavily upside down on a sale. I have a nagging feeling that there is something else mechanical/electronic impacting this issue. We will see.

I need to solve this problem and sell an otherwise really clean car in nice order now and feel good about the sale. I'd like to keep it but with 120K mi on it, there is potential a lot of expensive repairs to come. I have changed the oil religiously and always had it serviced at the dealer and while the motor will probably be great for many years it's all the other stuff like my trans that was replaced under warranty @ 65K and the turbo system, exhaust system, brake system, electronics which could potentially cause lots of expensive repairs over time. I am previously a watercooled VW and ford guy and did all service and repairs myself including clutch/trans engine swaps etc. on my Gti and my M81 McLaren but for some reason with this car I don't have it in me. Whining over!

Cheers.

NJGreenBudd said:
Your making more sense now, way to take control and get things sorted. You're going to be so much happier when it's all back together and running smoothly. 115,000 is just broken in and despite some worn bushings your car is probably in rather fine shape.

I don't know when your suspsenison was last serviced but it never hurts to look at shock mounts, spring seats, sway bar endlinks while your in there.

PCV is located under the intake manifold and consists of some rubber hoses and a oil trap, you can most likely clean the trap and the lines and be good to go, that is unless the oil changes were overdue and it's filled with sludge.

Your going to save boatloads by doing this yourself or even with a qualified indy shop, just make sure they know what they are doing.

Let us know if you need diagrams or part #'s as many of us have Vadis and willing to help in any way we can.

Hope this helps,
NJGB

endothrow · Feb 19, 2011

If I could throw in my two cents about your car before you go down the "fix-it"m path, I wanted to comment on #1 and #2. I have had very minor transmission issues as early as 6 months ago and decided to take all my repairs into my own hands now that I have a garage at home (I have done car work in the past).
I would at least do a drain and fill on the transmission every 20K miles and it looks like it might be overdue. With all the feedback on this site, Volvo VADIS maintenance schedules are not accurate for some of the listed items. I just installed the B4 Servo Cover on my GearTronic transmission (see signature) and the results were amazing. It was a bitch to install, but immediately worth it with "new feeling" shifts in the tranny. The B4 Servo cover is $20 at IPD and you can do it yourself with some time and snap ring pliers. The drain and fill on the tranny is just like an oil change. About 3 or 4 quarts need to be refilled after the drain (synthetic 3009 I think).

Spark plugs should be changed when the engine is slightly warm. I had dealerships work on mine for 6 years until I started doing everything myself, and I can tell you that I took a breaker bar to one of my spark plugs when changing. Don't be too scared of breaking it as long as you have the right insulated socket.

You will feel so much satisfaction in doing the job yourself and thinking of the money that you save for some sweat and swearing one weekend. Check out NJGB's build post to see what is possible if you have the interest.

Cheers,

dhS60t · Feb 25, 2011

Thanks for the suggestions.

dhS60t · Mar 25, 2011

FYI..thanks to all the help and suggestions #2 and #5 are done and vibration solved!

Dealer service vs. do it yourself? Need help on boost and vibrations

dhS60t

MYS6T

dhS60t

MYS6T

crazynorweegian

dhS60t

NJGreenBudd

dhS60t

endothrow

dhS60t

dhS60t

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